Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#291

Post by thepasswordis » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

Is anybody advocating for them or encouraging them in any way?

I can’t think of a single group which aims to highlight men, uplift men, and encourage masculine behavior.

These guys grew up in a school system of almost entirely women teachers, and popular media tells them that if they are successful in any way, it is due to oppression.

It’s no wonder why they’re not succeeding. We spent the last 15 years telling them that their success is evil. Who are their role models supposed to be exactly?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#292

Post by _delirium » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #205

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

In Tacoma, I lived nextdoor to a guy who "hurt his back" when he was 22. As far as I can tell, he'll sit on his couch collecting disability until 65, at which point he'll switch to retirement.

I obviously don't know this person at all, but from what I know of how Social Security disability works, 22 is a really unlikely age to qualify. Are you sure it wasn't slightly earlier or later?

To be eligible in your own right, you have to have paid into Social Security for a total of 40 quarters before becoming disabled. Given child labor laws, it's rare that you could accumulate enough quarters before age 26 or so.

The other way is to be eligible on a parent's social security, as a "disabled child", which is defined as someone who became disabled before age 22. If you suffered a permanent disability at age 21, and have a parent who paid enough into SS to be eligible, you can receive "child" benefits from their account even as an adult: https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/disability/qualify.html#anchor7

This leaves an unfortunate gap for people who genuinely become permanently disabled due to an accident or medical condition that happens around age 22-25, because they can't qualify through either route.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#293

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

depressedx wrote: post #282

david-gpu wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a psychologist, but I would guess that playing games at all times is more a symptom than a cause. A symptom of depression? A coping mechanism for chronic anxiety? A happy well adjusted person does not try so hard to escape reality or responsibilities. Demeaning them by calling them man-children is not going to help them in the slightest.

Depression is often characterised by a struggle in finding the motivation / desire to do something you love: if they love video games and can play them 12 hours a day, it's very possible they simply... don't care about the outside world. A job, family, exploring the world, these are all things some people just don't like. They don't have to have mental illness in order to spend their lives doing one thing!

[deleted]

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#294

Post by version_five » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #257

izend wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't always work, video games are probably the cheapest addicting entertainment out there. Doesn't take much income to just survive and play video games all day long.

I highly doubt that video games are solely to blame. I was quite addicted to video games until my early 20s, but I eventually understood that gaming falls down the priority list as you take on more responsibilities in life. My friends were the same.

Definitely a symptom and not a cause. Like people that drink heavily in university then don't later once they have obligations.

My university roommate played video games nonstop. Then he graduated, got a job (as a video game developer) and has a wife and three kids. It's like any addiction, its filling a void, but the object of abuse is not what's to blame.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#295

Post by codemac » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #151

I'm trying to get my son and his girlfriend to live at home for a few years post graduation. He wants to move out into a place in seattle. She's a bit more about saving money. The math is that they'd have all loans paid off and a 200k down payment about 4 years out of college if they live with us, and they'd have loans paid off if in 4 years and Important side note: they're both major home bodies so they wouldn't tak…

PERSONAL RANT YOU DON'T NEED TO READ, BUT I NEED TO WRITE:

I will add something to your son's point: being independent from my family was more important to me than saving money, especially if their loans are only 4 years away from being paid off. In fact, it bootstrapped all kinds of good behaviors around how to socialize with others, make friends, find a job, fix my own toilet, do laundry, pay taxes, find a new hair stylist, shop for clothes, etc etc etc.

It gave me the independence to move even further, and find work paid literally 10x more in a few years. No amount of saving would make up for that.

I can't imagine how much more stagnate my life would be if I had done the "smart thing" and put my life on pause instead of doing what I wanted from the get go. Death is much less stressful to think about when you're living aligned with your goals and values.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#296

Post by ldiracdelta » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

whiskyant wrote: post #201

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

It's the parents fault for coddling them. If they kicked them out at 18, the nephews would definitely need to work and may realize the importance of having a better job/career.

James Dobson once said about a similar scenario, "your son doesn't have a problem, _you_ have problem." Meaning providing lodging and meals for someone who refuses to work is actually enabling on the part of the parents.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#297

Post by supertrope » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

atweiden wrote: post #221

CydeWeys wrote: post #36

Part of this problem is our societal failure to build enough housing to keep up with the increasing number of people, with a resulting increase in housing costs that has significantly outpaced the median wage. If you can't afford to live on your own, and can't afford housing where the jobs are located, then you're more likely to live with your parents and be unemployed.

> Part of this problem is our societal failure to build enough housing to keep up with the increasing number of people. The issue is human overpopulation, not our society’s “failure” to destroy the fabric of closely knit communities. Humans are by far the least efficient life form on this planet, and what little enjoyment most humans get out of life mostly comes down to the integrity of their local communities: their…

Without economic growth we’d still be hunter gatherers. Growing crops allowed people to have excess food and support classes of people whose occupation was non-food related. The industrial revolution not only allowed for mass production but the Haber process by which fossil fuels are turned into fertilizer. Without it we would only be able to feed half the world.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#298

Post by heylook » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #286

hardwaregeek wrote: post #223

Video game addiction is a real problem. I spent my freshman year of college rooming with man-children who played video games non-stop. They didn't explore the city, they didn't meet new people, they just played video games in the dark, screaming into their headsets and eating their takeout at their desk. People can certainly have a healthy, fruitful relationship to video games but since then I haven't felt the need t…

I know people are different and I'm not wired the same way, but I have trouble understanding how people can play games for more than a few hours a week. Games like Pac Man and Tetris are algorithmic workloads. It's not much different than driving a semi or forklift, except you're not paid by a company for the work you do. It puts human brains closer to acting and performing as algorithmic worker bee agents. Modern AA…

> I already work too much.

That’s your problem. Repetition, mindlessness, boredom, flow are different facets of the same phenomenon. When your ancestors needed to build a shelter, they spent hours and hours chopping, hewing, digging, etc etc. Birds have nests, bees have hives, beavers have dams; the list goes on and on. It’s perfectly normal to find some amount of busywork soothing.

You hit your cap at work; others don’t. There are also those with real addictions where it inhibits their ability to accomplish other goals, but that’s true of tons of habits that scratch the same itch.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#299

Post by waynesonfire » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

zabzonk wrote: post #287

depressedx wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression is often characterised by a struggle in finding the motivation / desire to do something you love: if they love video games and can play them 12 hours a day, it's very possible they simply... don't care about the outside world. A job, family, exploring the world, these are all things some people just don't like. They don't have to have mental illness in order to spend their lives doing one thing!

> They don't have to have mental illness in order to spend their lives doing one thing! I'd argue that doing one thing for the rest of your life is a classic definition of mental illness.

I disagree, it's an mental illness if it interferes in your desired pursuit. For example, there is nothing wrong with playing games ur whole life.. except if you decide you want to get a girlfriend and can't. Now you're dealing with a mental illness.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#300

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

hardwaregeek wrote: post #223

Video game addiction is a real problem. I spent my freshman year of college rooming with man-children who played video games non-stop. They didn't explore the city, they didn't meet new people, they just played video games in the dark, screaming into their headsets and eating their takeout at their desk. People can certainly have a healthy, fruitful relationship to video games but since then I haven't felt the need t…

One young man in my boy's cohort got addicted. Sat and drank beer and played video games until exhausted; then slept on the couch and repeat the next day. Two years later, died of liver failure.