Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#251

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

tetranomiga wrote: post #218

bektok2 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time for some tough love and kick them out. Not doing them any favors enabling their laziness.

He said, in a time of record unemployment and low wages that are impossible to live off of. Almost like there are other factors at play here than just men being lazy. HN loves to forget that not everybody can be a FAANG employee or has the desire to sit in front of a computer writing code their whole lives.

> Almost like there are other factors at play here than just men being lazy.

The story as conveyed by OP is textbook people being lazy.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#252

Post by Cyph0n » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

whiskyant wrote: post #201

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

It's the parents fault for coddling them. If they kicked them out at 18, the nephews would definitely need to work and may realize the importance of having a better job/career.

As you noted, it is likely that something went seriously wrong with raising them (coddling, over-helping, etc.). But you don’t need to be “kicked out” to start working on building your life and your career.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#253

Post by q-big » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

whiskyant wrote: post #236

izend wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't always work, video games are probably the cheapest addicting entertainment out there. Doesn't take much income to just survive and play video games all day long.

But at least they would be working, probably know how to drive a car, and may consider furthering their education/career when they realize how little they make for their time.

... or commit suicide.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#254

Post by jmcgough » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:30 PM UTC

whiskyant wrote: post #201

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

It's the parents fault for coddling them. If they kicked them out at 18, the nephews would definitely need to work and may realize the importance of having a better job/career.

At the same time, I see people leave home in their teens or 20s and work a series of crappy minimum wage jobs and never get a decent one with benefits, because they're busy surviving or don't see a better option.

An ideal situation requires pressure to succeed, while also providing resources and guidance to be successful.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#255

Post by avs733 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:31 PM UTC

whiskyant wrote: post #201

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

It's the parents fault for coddling them. If they kicked them out at 18, the nephews would definitely need to work and may realize the importance of having a better job/career.

I deal with a lot of 18-19 year olds as my primary job is teaching first year engineering students.

I will tell you it is a LOT more complicated than this. This type of single point simplification and pronouncement about 'coddling' is decidedly unhelpful.

For starters, if you grow up in two working parent household, both parents can easily come home completely exhausted and unable to provide the extended engagement necessary to help a child develop. Add in the social pressures of school where EVERYONE has an iphone and games where it is socially isolating not to do these things - which carries its own set of risks. Add in a public education system that doesn't focus on development and instead focuses on learning material. Add in an economy designed to optimize extraction of capital from individuals through psychological programming and ads and more stuff to buy.

None of this has to have a single source of blame, much of its realistically structural and cultural. It isn't one bad actor or one failed thing...it is a large number of individuals, groups, and organizations individually performing Goodhart's law and the result is some get cast aside.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#256

Post by vmception » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

krastanov wrote: post #195

vmception wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. this provides some context for why some women immediately balk when they see my playstation controller and vr headset on the west elm media cabinet "[oh god] are you ... a gamer ??" I feel like a lot of people can't differentiate between potential partners that own a console versus whatever gamer…

This anecdote definitely confuses me and I can not imagine such a first reaction happening in my social circle (yes, this is also just an anecdote ;)

yeah, I wish that first reaction didn't happen at all repeatedly

nice that you don't experience or do that

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#257

Post by Cyph0n » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

izend wrote: post #231

whiskyant wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the parents fault for coddling them. If they kicked them out at 18, the nephews would definitely need to work and may realize the importance of having a better job/career.

Doesn't always work, video games are probably the cheapest addicting entertainment out there. Doesn't take much income to just survive and play video games all day long.

I highly doubt that video games are solely to blame.

I was quite addicted to video games until my early 20s, but I eventually understood that gaming falls down the priority list as you take on more responsibilities in life. My friends were the same.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#258

Post by notJim » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

whiskyant wrote: post #236

izend wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't always work, video games are probably the cheapest addicting entertainment out there. Doesn't take much income to just survive and play video games all day long.

But at least they would be working, probably know how to drive a car, and may consider furthering their education/career when they realize how little they make for their time.

This is maybe a ridiculous question, but why is that so much better? If someone is able to live cheaply, why is it better for them to work in some menial, low-wage job versus being supported by a relative? I think something you have to consider is that if you have low social standing and are poorly educated, your options in life are not necessarily super appealing.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#259

Post by ArkanExplorer » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #39

CydeWeys wrote: post #36

Part of this problem is our societal failure to build enough housing to keep up with the increasing number of people, with a resulting increase in housing costs that has significantly outpaced the median wage. If you can't afford to live on your own, and can't afford housing where the jobs are located, then you're more likely to live with your parents and be unemployed.

Adding to this, we've also abandoned the idea of building out in the middle of nowhere and linking it to a city center with a rail line. I'd gladly buy a cheap home in the boonies if I could take a train into work instead of driving.

Its going to be significantly more realistic to retrofit existing roads and highways with machine-readable signage and traffic lights (for example, why do cars have to read traffic lights with cameras, why can't the lights broadcast the status locally?)

Then we can run autonomous vehicles (private and corporate) over the same infrastructure.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#260

Post by yaacov » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #205

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

In Tacoma, I lived nextdoor to a guy who "hurt his back" when he was 22. As far as I can tell, he'll sit on his couch collecting disability until 65, at which point he'll switch to retirement.

I don’t know this dude, and if you know he’s just scamming the system I’ll take your word for it, but when I’ve experienced serious physical pain I’ve found video games much more helpful than OTC painkillers.