Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#211

Post by gonehome » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #178

plif wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about the savings math doesn't check out, especially given the NEET aspect. 200k savings in 4 years out of school is a lot.

$185k/48 = $3.85k in monthly costs saved by not living independently. I can see it as being possible in Seattle, but on the high end. I would assume comparable abodes to sharing your parents house would be cheaper. I also would not have wanted to stay with my parents in my 20s though, at least not with my specific parents.

Yeah - I think it's highly dependent on what your parents are like.

I've known people who lived at home for a year or two to save money, but I wouldn't have been able to have any independence.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#212

Post by symlinkk » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

I don’t blame them.

All of the necessities are less and less attainable day by day.

House prices are rising out of control.

College education is extremely expensive, and jobs require more and more degrees and credentials.

Dating apps are heavily biased towards women.

But entertainment at home is more attainable than ever! Cheap high speed internet, a plethora of fun games to play, tons of people online to socialize with.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#213

Post by mnouquet » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

samlevine wrote: post #161

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

Dating isn't fun. At least it isn't for me as a middle aged divorce. I get matches, I meet interesting people and go on dates and the process is just emotionally exhausting. I would rather put in time into my job, or my friends, or my hobbies. If I can meet someone who wants to be part of my life, fantastic. If not, I will live until I don't.

> I would rather put in time into my job, or my friends, or my hobbies.

one acronym: MGTOW.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#214

Post by vecter » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #191

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

Do you think that video game addiction contributes to this kind of thing, or is the video game addiction a coping mechanism? I think video game addiction is an incredibly underreported and highly destructive phenomenon. I encounter (and had to fire a few days ago) lots of young men who don't appear to ever sleep, and are highly unproductive, unmotivated, and constantly distracted. The kid I had to fire (I call him ki…

I think video game addiction definitely contributes. I used to spend a fair amount of time playing first person shooters in my childhood 15-20 years ago. I haven't played much nowadays but these games provide a sense of "progress" and "accomplishment", which people would probably normally seek outside. Even in the past 5 years, I've caught myself having a reflex to open a game like Apex Legends or Valorant whenever I had a free moment instead of going for a run outside, playing piano, or cooking dinner. The problem is they're really fun also, which exacerbates the problem since it's easy to follow the "greedy optimization" algorithm in life and do things that are fun and rewarding as opposed to doing challenging but longer-term actually rewarding things.

This is not to say that you should never play video games. I've found that they've been great for staying in touch with friends I would've otherwise lost touch with. A few hours a week isn't bad at all. It's just that it can snowball very quickly if you're not mindful about how you spend your time.

I luckily never really became addicted to any video games, but I'm concerned for my future children who will undoubtedly encounter video games in the future some day.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#215

Post by UncleOxidant » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

whiskyant wrote: post #201

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

It's the parents fault for coddling them. If they kicked them out at 18, the nephews would definitely need to work and may realize the importance of having a better job/career.

I agree with this. I think it has something to do with my sister (their mom) being a single mom from the time they were 6, 8 years old till she remarried when they were teenagers and their stepfather not wanting to interfere too much in the parenting department.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#216

Post by d_burfoot » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

> It's a slow motion tragedy.

From an environmental perspective, this kind of minimalist lifestyle actually seems quite healthy. They don't drive, and I assume they don't fly or buy a lot of stuff, so their carbon and other resource footprint is small. They don't take up much extra space, so they reduce suburban sprawl and land required for housing. They probably won't have kids, which further reduces their environmental impact. Maybe we should encourage more people to live this way.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#217

Post by whiskyant » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

Romulus968 wrote: post #54

I'm in the labor force, but live at home. I can absolutely afford to purchase a home. Why don't I? Because I'm not spending $250,000+ on 1400sq ft. These types of articles make it seem like some huge mystery as to why society is the way it is today. It's no mystery. Houses cost to much and employers don't pay enough.

Dang, only $250k for 1400 sqft? That would easily be $1.25M+ here.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#218

Post by tetranomiga » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

bektok2 wrote: post #204

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

Time for some tough love and kick them out. Not doing them any favors enabling their laziness.

He said, in a time of record unemployment and low wages that are impossible to live off of. Almost like there are other factors at play here than just men being lazy. HN loves to forget that not everybody can be a FAANG employee or has the desire to sit in front of a computer writing code their whole lives.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#219

Post by UncleOxidant » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #205

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

In Tacoma, I lived nextdoor to a guy who "hurt his back" when he was 22. As far as I can tell, he'll sit on his couch collecting disability until 65, at which point he'll switch to retirement.

Not going to get much of a retirement if he never paid into social security.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#220

Post by gonehome » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

Videogames provide fake achievement and an easy thing to do to occupy you - I think some people are more vulnerable to this kind of thing than others. For me, the fake achievement feels fake and I don't get much satisfaction out of it - but for others I think it mimics real achievement enough that they can pour hours into it.

Online dating sucks for most men - if you're not in the top 2% of attractiveness for men it is a waste of your time (especially in skewed markets like the bay area), you're better off going places to meet people in person and working on your social skills that way (I think your friend is right).