Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#191

Post by JPKab » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

Do you think that video game addiction contributes to this kind of thing, or is the video game addiction a coping mechanism?

I think video game addiction is an incredibly underreported and highly destructive phenomenon. I encounter (and had to fire a few days ago) lots of young men who don't appear to ever sleep, and are highly unproductive, unmotivated, and constantly distracted. The kid I had to fire (I call him kid, but he was 28 and incredibly immature) reminded me of a former colleague in the construction industry who relapsed on his crack/cocaine addiction. Distracted, listless, kind of just there for the ride.

Edit: Apparently ASKING about video game addiction merits downvotes with zero responses explaining why.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#192

Post by MattGaiser » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

leesec wrote: post #183

shimonabi wrote: post #157

I had a pretty rough time between the years 2004 and 2016. I dropped out of college for a career track I dreamt about since childhood and I didn't know what to do with my life. I had no job experience and the recession hit also. If you live in a small country, where everyone is related on average 2.5 degrees away to a random person, it's pretty hard to get a job if you don't have any family connections. After several…

There are an insane number of job openings right now.

I assume that he is not American from the "small country" bit.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#193

Post by troupe » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:06 PM UTC

beckman466 wrote: post #12

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

> I suspect all of this is primarily cultural first, and not related specifically to work, the economy, pricing of good or services like buying a home and starting a family, which would come second. Hmmm I think you're wrong. It sounds like you've got survivorship bias, big time. Most people want to contribute, but the economic system fucks them and makes them dependent. Examples include: the intellectual property re…

> Most people want to contribute, but the economic system [...] makes them dependent.

The people being discussed here are people without jobs who have a place to live rent free. There is not an economic system holding them back from being able to find a way to contribute because their expenses are very close to $0. For all practical purposes, they have the equivalent of universal basic income. If they would like to write poetry instead of playing video games they could. If they would prefer to paint or write code, they could.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#194

Post by mustafa_pasi » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:07 PM UTC

CameronNemo wrote: post #146

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an idea I've been toying with for a dating tool (I refuse to call it an app) based on the premise that all dating "apps" and "sites" are horrible because their incentives are aligned toward wanting people to actually use them. You pretty much have ad-driven and subscription models and both have perverse incentives. Further, the whole "wink", "like" and "swipe" nonsense increases the "meat market" commoditizati…

I've thought about ways to improve dating networks, and I think the best solution is to throw them out and just get young people to go out in groups and do activities together. Romance would be a secondary output (as would friendships, professional networking, and plain old perspective broadening). Rationale is that a lot of women, and to a lesser degree men, do not feel comfortable going out 1x1 with a stranger (and…

For what it's worth, I came to the same conclusion. You cannot fix online dating, but the real problem is that the younger generations used to have a lot of face to face hangout time due to how the world worked pre-internet, and all that is gone now. Now you have to plan every hangout and it happens once a week instead of once a day.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#195

Post by krastanov » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #181

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

> know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. this provides some context for why some women immediately balk when they see my playstation controller and vr headset on the west elm media cabinet "[oh god] are you ... a gamer ??" I feel like a lot of people can't differentiate between potential partners that own a console versus whatever gamer…

This anecdote definitely confuses me and I can not imagine such a first reaction happening in my social circle (yes, this is also just an anecdote ;)

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#196

Post by tonyedgecombe » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

AlwaysRock wrote: post #42

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

I've got a buddy in a similar situation. We all came from somewhat similar backgrounds and all majored in the same, useless, thing. We lived together and while we all played a lot of video games one of the three never really moved on from that. He's still working at a low wage job behind a counter and playing video games a lot. I think it's less that he doesnt know different but more that he never got a break in the…

I stumbled into a career. Our other buddy stumbled into a career.

Talking to various people this seems to be very common. I know it was the case for me.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#197

Post by lozaning » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

lumost wrote: post #81

michaelt wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does effort mean in this context? One school of thought says there are men on dating websites who copy-paste a message saying "hey how you doing?" to every woman they see; and that women are beset by hundreds of copy-pasted messages from men who haven't even read their profile. This school of thought says, in order to stand out, men should carefully compose a different clever, charming message for each woman t…

This is why tinder was created, having both parties express some level of interest eliminates the need and most of the benefits of mass spamming. Granted one party could spam likes, but ranking algorithms probably take into account this behavior.

Tinder uses an ELO ranking system.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#198

Post by MattGaiser » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

plif wrote: post #168

grogenaut wrote: post #151

I'm trying to get my son and his girlfriend to live at home for a few years post graduation. He wants to move out into a place in seattle. She's a bit more about saving money. The math is that they'd have all loans paid off and a 200k down payment about 4 years out of college if they live with us, and they'd have loans paid off if in 4 years and Important side note: they're both major home bodies so they wouldn't tak…

Something about the savings math doesn't check out, especially given the NEET aspect. 200k savings in 4 years out of school is a lot.

The assumption is probably that their salary essentially goes to savings.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#199

Post by gonehome » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #130

izend wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will happen once their parents are gone?

I suppose they'll inherit the house if it's paid off by then and continue to live as they are for a time. They seem fond of instant ramen, so I guess maybe they're partially prepared. But then again, when the property tax comes due they'll likely not be able to pay it and eventually become homeless after the house proceeds run out. The future seems pretty bleak for them.

They can probably just get a roommate to cover the tax and ramen expense or door dash one day a week or something.

Having no rent cost is pretty big.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#200

Post by at_a_remove » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

mkmk2 wrote: post #167

at_a_remove wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I cannot speak for Tinder, but you have probably seen the stats from the now-deleted OKCupid blogs. I worked in a dating service pre-Intarwebs and the dynamics are almost exactly the same, just lacking only the "instant" factor of the Internet, plus the rather expanded pool. As someone who entered people's "preferences" versus their "must-haves," certain trends emerged. To be politic about it, those trends did…

As someone who's been exposed to the stats more than most of us (I assume, pre-web dating service), do you have any particular insights? Have you thought about what one could do to address this mismatch since? I was fortunate to find my s.o. on a language exchange site, but if I felt my best options were something from the Match Group... it looks grim

No solutions, I am afraid, that do not involve large-scale genetic engineering.

In the parlance of our times, dudes are generally "thirstier." On top of it, you can call it genetics or you can call it culture, but ... men make the approach, typically. (Okay, I am done with generally and typically and trends for now) This leads to guys spamming some entirely-too-fussy gals and the usual dynamics emerging.

You've read the grim confessions of women who remorselessly admit to "dating for dinner." You've seen the baiting performed using the photo of a male model who can say simply the most awful and outrageous things. The Heightism user might have been banned on Twitter but others have emerged like the heads of hydras, reposting the casually cruel dismissal of men under six foot.

It's only the basic thirstiness that drives men to even continue, and I suspect that a lot of young men opt out, because that's just step one. They're looking at their often-divorced parents and remembering who got the house, then wondering if the game is worth the candle. I suspect the men at the intersection of easily disheartened and generally aware have been most put off, leaving the field to the exuberant and the blessed.

And remember, we are currently in a culture that doesn't seem to like men very much. Just for a giggle, go to Google, type "men are" and see what the autocomplete suggests, then do "women are." That has to add to more of the disenchantment.