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Software is eating the car

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Software is eating the car

#531

Post by jonplackett »

jjav wrote: post #320
jonplackett wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact same stupid thing that happened with DSLR cameras. Old SLR cameras had a ring around the lens for f-stop and another dial on top for shutter speed. New DSLR cameras even now hide all that stuff in a menu on the touch screen, as if it isn't something you want to change ALL THE TIME - and develop instant muscle memory for.

> New DSLR cameras even now hide all that stuff in a menu on the touch screen Don't approximately all DSLR have separate physical knobs for aperture and shutter speed? Agreed that a DSLR without these would be nearly useless.

I think I should correct to "dSLRs that I can afford"

Re: Software is eating the car

#532

Post by drdavid »

kingsuper20 wrote: post #391
drdavid wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been a long time since you could get a truly bespoke car from a major manufacturer in a reasonable price segment. But, you used to be able to order all sorts of stuff - or not order it. For example, you could save a few hundred bucks by not having a rear bumper, not having a radio, opting for manual windows and transmission, opting for no cruise control, etc... There were a multitude of options and you could a…

Fun fact. On export first gen Camaro you could save a few bucks by ordering them with seat belt delete (A48 option).

Indeed. Before safety belts were mandatory, they were optional on many models.

Re: Software is eating the car

#533

Post by jacquesm »

finolex1 wrote: post #261
Aperocky wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol that is crazy. Just leave the control to the person behind the wheel, but somehow that's too stretched of an idea. I hope the F150 E truck will not have those 'automatic' features. but then again, I kind of wanted lane keeping and follow so maybe that's just the necessary evil. Maybe 'modes' where it gives all controls to me when I wanted it?

Counterpoint: My Subaru has averted at least 2 collisions till date by applying an emergency brake (admittedly not in any life threatening situation, though it did save me a considerable amount in potential repairs). Though yes I agree, the option to turn off features is certainly helpful.

You may want to go through some additional driver education, if your emergency braking system activates several time in a short period of time that is a possible indication that you may not be on the ball. But happy to see that you ended up avoiding two accidents :)

Re: Software is eating the car

#534

Post by kazinator »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

In a parking spot, I never turn the steering wheel without the car moving forward or backwards. It's bad for the tires. But what drove the lesson home for me (pardon the pun) is when I drove a rental car with no power steering, sometime in 1990 in Europe.

If the car is not moving, and you try to turn the wheels with no power steering, you feel massive resistance from the road-rubber interface. When you let the car move this way or that, even just a little bit, that resistance dramatically eases.

To hell with power steering; what's it good for?

Power steering and brakes are dangerous because they are powered from the engine. In an emergency situation, exactly when you need the controls to respond in the expected way, your engine may die. Suddenly, you have no braking power, and the steering is all weird.

Re: Software is eating the car

#535

Post by jeegsy »

wyager wrote: post #280
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

Cars are legally required to have infotainment systems (for the backup camera) by NHTSA safety regulations. We’re fucked.

My '12 Tundra had the backup screen in the rearview mirror. A huge innovation to me at the time. Everything else was knobs and buttons on the dash like yesteryear. That truck was awesome. A shame I had to give it up!

Re: Software is eating the car

#536

Post by kazinator »

kazinator wrote: post #534
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

In a parking spot, I never turn the steering wheel without the car moving forward or backwards. It's bad for the tires. But what drove the lesson home for me (pardon the pun) is when I drove a rental car with no power steering, sometime in 1990 in Europe. If the car is not moving, and you try to turn the wheels with no power steering, you feel massive resistance from the road-rubber interface. When you let the car mo…

> Suddenly, you have no braking power, and the steering is all weird.

One day in in the early 1990's sometime, I was driving a car that started to aquaplane on a patch of wet road. Suddenly the car felt like a boat, and shimmied a bit and spun around. It caught some traction coming out of the wet patch, and at that point I could have stopped it faster, had the power brakes not failed respond in the normal way because the engine cut.

So I ended up striking the concrete divider with the rear corner of the car. I was not moving fast at that point; I didn't hit it very hard, but enough to cause damage and that could have been avoided had the brakes worked.

The engine might have cut because of lock up due to braking without traction. This was an automatic transmission, so that's another piece of idiocy to blame. In a manual, you wouldn't brake with the intent to stop without also hitting the clutch to disengage the engine; there is a good chance the engine and power brakes would not have cut out if that had happened in a manual.

(Electric cars should also fix all this.)

It could have been a pile up; this was in fairly busy, fast moving traffic with cars all around. Everyone behind managed to avoid me, luckily, and, equally luckily, the cars in front who were likely oblivious to the situation did not come to an unrelated halt, which would have seen me careen into them.

Re: Software is eating the car

#538

Post by watt »

pessimizer wrote: post #401
_jal wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers tend to love it when their opponents think they've found a cute legal hack.

That's not a cute legal hack. Not retaining any information that is not useful and has the potential to be incriminating, unless legally required to, is what every smart company or government agency does. You find the relevant laws, then you write a retention policy.

Sorry, on who's side are you really on?

Re: Software is eating the car

#539

Post by watt »

tima101 wrote: post #140
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

"Has the whole world gone CRAZY?"

There's some amount of entitlement in that exclamation, though. The world, I feel, does not actually owe you to make any sense, or move in any predictable, safe pattern. The world will shift, and leave you behind.

Feeling resentful about that is just unproductive. (To take a slightly trolling tone, can you imagine how a lot of racists (BLM) must feel? Or religious fundamentalists, homophobes feel (gay marriage). The world does not owe them anything.)

Re: Software is eating the car

#540

Post by throw111444 »

I own Mitsubisi Pajero (Montero in the US) that is basically designed in the 80s-90s. I installed a dumb car radio with monochrome display, which plays sound via USB and BT. I want a car that is controlled by me directly: electrically, hydraulically and pneumatically rather than algorithmically. With only the exception for ABS and ignition control which are the only valid uses for the software in the car.
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