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Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

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Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#151

Post by ravenstine »

willtim wrote: post #116
ravenstine wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will until you upgrade your Ubuntu version and you open it up to find a message that "your file manager is deprecated. use this crappy fork with fewer features instead", only to have it abandoned after a few years because the devs for the fork got butthurt. I'm so glad I ditched Linux. Got tired of losing features because of people's egos, and being told ffmpeg was deprecated when it really wasn't became the final…

Is that relevant to Gnome? It's used the same file manager "Nautilus" for years. Apple and Microsoft are also quite capable of killing software projects.

How long have you been using Gnome for? I'd been a while for me, but back when I was using Linux it seemed like Nautilus was frequently dropping features for things I didn't care about.

https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/gnom...

Gnome may be different now, but they were part of a pattern in the GNU/Linux community that ultimately caused me to leave it. I knew I couldn't rely on either Gnome or distros themselves because they seemed to have no problem changing things out from underneath you, and more often than not it seemed like those things were done as a form of self promotion.

This wasn't a one off thing. This was the Linux world for a good number of years, in my experience. Anyone who used Ubuntu or Debian from 2008 to around 2013 might remember the forks that happened because DEs up and decided that they knew better than their own users.

Not specifically about Gnome, but I brought up FFmpeg (or rather libav) as another example of the bullshit of Linux. Some devs decided that they didn't like the architecture of FFmpeg and wanted it to be organized to their liking, so they forked it into Libav/avconv, which was inferior to FFmpeg but the people who run the Debian repositories were convinced that Libav was the future so they replaced FFmpeg with an alias to avconv that had a totally misleading deprecation message that was basically a lie.

So yeah, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Gnome one day decided to get rid of thumbnails and not provide an option to turn them back on. Yes, I am bitter from the latter years of my Linux usage. Somehow macOS can update and upgrade its versions without causing me to question whether aspects of the UI I rely upon will spontaneously disappear or gaslight me into thinking I shouldn't be using those things anymore.

Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#152

Post by duskwuff »

alexvoda wrote: post #150
duskwuff wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even within the Control Panel (the older one), there's multiple visually distinct UIs: 1. First, there's "Windows 7 style" applets like "File History", "Power Options", and "Programs and Features". I'm not sure how to summarize these beyond that they have a resizable window and usually have some options in a sidebar on the left, but they all have a visually consistent look (which was a lot more obvious before Win…

1 and 2 are part of the same Vista/7 era Control Panel UI. 3 I believe is even older than that, maybe since 95 4 is the MMC. The MMC is actually great and I am disaponted to see it lose favor. You can even use the MMC to remotely admin other computers. The MMC is somethig I miss on other OSs. Microsoft should have really invested time in creating template projects used to migrate from the 95 era panels to the Vista/7…

> Microsoft should have really invested time in creating template projects used to migrate from the 95 era panels to the Vista/7 era panels. And then again for Win10.

A lot of the problem just feels like they've repeatedly given up halfway through converting old settings UIs to newer ones and fallen back to bundling the old UIs into "advanced" or "additional settings" windows. The Personalization settings are a perfect example of this -- there's a Windows 10 Settings applet, which defers to a Windows 7 Control Panel applet for some options, which internally defers to a Windows XP era dialog for setting colors (which are mostly no-ops on Windows 10, but I digress). What they really need is a concerted effort to finish the job.

> Did Mac OS 9 and earlier have plugable 3rd party panels?

Ooooooh boy. Tangent time:

Control Panels and Extensions were perhaps one of the most terrifying part of Classic Mac OS from a modern development perspective. They represented modules of code which were loaded system-wide at startup, which could patch any (ANY!!) part of the operating system with their own code to add custom functionality -- for example, some common ones would add a screen saver (After Dark), add custom system-wide menus (Now Menus), or change the appearance of system controls and windows (Kaleidoscope). Conflicts between different cdevs/extensions were commonplace; System 7.5 added a first-party Extensions Manager utility that could be used to temporarily disable extensions, and a number of third-party utilities existed to diagnose startup crashes caused by conflicts.

The only difference between a Control Panel and an Extension was that a Control Panel could be launched as an application, typically to change its settings. There was no special UI framework for third-party Control Panels; they used the same UI toolkits as any other application.

Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#153

Post by user5994461 »

akiselev wrote: post #126
ulzeraj wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don't think so. Every time I download and install from an Windows ISO it seems worse. Right out of the bat there is a page where you need to uncheck all the spyware crap and there are so many it scrolls. They also make it so a normal local user is presented like a somewhat inferior experience than their web login. Then you have to fill in obligatory 3 recovery questions even if you are confident in your…

That stupid weather widget and the Xbox overlay randomly popping up, completely disabling input without an obvious way to get out (some random win key combo), finally drove me to dump Windows as a daily driver. It even drove me to get some real work done on my passion project so I'd never have to use a Windows VM for CAD ever again. I lived through Micro$oft but I was too inexperienced to understand the hate directed…

To turn off the weather.

Right click on the task bar, news and interests, turn off.

Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#154

Post by spicybright »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #140
binbag wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The windows hating is so boring and childish. Windows, and particularly Windows 10, is a very good OS. It's not even open source advocates that dislike it so much. I think most Linux users would admit Windows is a solid option, if just not for them. It's usually just Mac fans.

I couldn't give a damn about macOS or the "Linux desktop". Yet I would still call Windows a disaster. Windows 10 was released almost 6 years ago now, and it's still a Frankenstein mess of 10 different UI styles dating all the way back to Win95, with no apparent drive to fix it up and make it consistent. Microsoft has extremely weak engineering culture.

They cater to business more than individual consumers. Backwards compatibility matters to them much more than ui consistency.

I tend to agree with that for my own uses. I don't care if it's pretty if it works.

Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#155

Post by alexvoda »

willtim wrote: post #107
mauricioc wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am using GNOME 40 and I just opened a file picker in Totem, the official video player. I did not find a way to switch the file picker from "Details" mode (one line per file, with size/type columns and a very very small thumbnail) to a "grid thumbnail" mode where they would be recognizable. The related bug is still open at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 , so I don't think this has been fixed.

Ah yes I used "Files" and not the file picker. I guess the file picker is part of GTK and therefore cannot use the rest of the gnome infrastructure?

The reason does not matter. It really is truly, absolutely irrelevant.

If Windows has issues with paths longer than 260 chars (only PARTIALLY fixed since Windows 10, v1607), I do not care that NTFS actually has no problem and supports 32,767 Unicode characters and the actual problem is the Windows API (and since v1607, apps that have not been updated to support the new behaviour). It is an example of a bug/limitation/lack-of-polish of Windows. The internal details are irrelevant.

Gnome has a lot more of these issues(thumbnails being one of the most visible and annoying ones) than Windows. Gnome (any ver) is not more polished than Windows.

Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#156

Post by taylodl »

Honest question - we have an old .Net web application that still uses Web Forms (I know, I know). Most of the team wants to move to better technology, but there are a few outspoken members who just love Web Forms and they don't want to migrate the site to use anything else. The business doesn't want to invest in an overhaul because of the expense and they point to these vocal team members who love Web Forms. I've been saying for some time that Microsoft will stop supporting Web Forms. Does the "retirement" of Windows 10 mean that's finally going to happen?

Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#157

Post by JoeyBananas »

Microsoft can not make any meaningful changes to windows 10 without pissing off all of their users. Here's what a new OS means for the average windows user: One day, they boot up Windows and all the low-level APIs they don't care about are still the same but it looks slightly different. Five minutes later, they need to adjust some setting and they can't find it.

Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#158

Post by SirLotsaLocks »

TravHatesMe wrote: post #12

> There is little doubt that the system will be called Windows 11, but it may still not be so. For some reason my gut says it won't be called Windows 11. I have a feeling it will be called something confusing or unappealing. Love MS products but they always fell short with branding.

It will probably just be called "Windows". They've shown they wanted windows 10 to be the final release of windows that they'll just update a couple times a year and add on to. This new windows will probably be a more simplified windows that they've been trying to make with windows 10S/S mode and windows 10X. Give it a UI/UX overhaul, push the WUP and call it just Windows because its the only windows you'll ever have to worry about from now on.

Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#159

Post by willtim »

alexvoda wrote: post #155
willtim wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes I used "Files" and not the file picker. I guess the file picker is part of GTK and therefore cannot use the rest of the gnome infrastructure?

The reason does not matter. It really is truly, absolutely irrelevant. If Windows has issues with paths longer than 260 chars (only PARTIALLY fixed since Windows 10, v1607), I do not care that NTFS actually has no problem and supports 32,767 Unicode characters and the actual problem is the Windows API (and since v1607, apps that have not been updated to support the new behaviour). It is an example of a bug/limitation…

I agree that the reason does not matter and is irrelevant to the end-user. I was just speculating as to why they have not "just fixed it". However, I disagree that Windows is more polished. Windows is made up of a mixture of UI frameworks/controls/apps, some going back decades. Much of this legacy is poorly integrated and even basic things like drag-and-drop doesn't work consistently. At least Gnome is consistent and they have a vision.

Re: Microsoft support page says Windows 10 “retirement date” is 2025

#160

Post by bydo »

ulzeraj wrote: post #27
duxup wrote: post #3

I'll be honest. I kinda lost track of windows, android, iOS versions at some point. And I think that's probably ok... I use it, it works, there ya go. Most everything I do really isn't OS dependent. I do fondly remember the days when OS upgrades was a huge change. I'll always fondly think of the Rolling Stone's "Start Me Up" and trying out OS/2 and various Linux flavors and so on. I used to spend HOURS customizing my…

Personally I don't think so. Every time I download and install from an Windows ISO it seems worse. Right out of the bat there is a page where you need to uncheck all the spyware crap and there are so many it scrolls. They also make it so a normal local user is presented like a somewhat inferior experience than their web login. Then you have to fill in obligatory 3 recovery questions even if you are confident in your…

There was even one release of Windows 10 Home where you couldn't create a local account, unless you tricked it by not connecting to a network. Not sure if this is still the case with current builds or if they came to their senses.

And good luck if you did create one and you also happen to use Office 365, because now you have two Microsoft accounts, possibly with the same email address, that use the same login page, and that's not confusing at all.

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