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Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

bigtechnology.substack.com

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Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#71

Post by skak »

ethbr0 wrote: post #54

I've come around and landed more on the opinion that we're now enabling our jailors. Light tech regulation was exactly the correct approach in the 1990s (and arguably the 2000s). It enabled mind-boggling rapid and stunning innovation. ... However, the massive corporate fortunes built by the winners of those times are now primarily enabling rent seeking. Google and Facebook's other work is interesting in the same way…

How do you (and most other people, especially Americans) not realize how unrealistic this is? It’s such a common refrain to say “break `em up!” but it seems as if nobody stops to question why it never happens despite it’s popularity...

These corporations control the government because the same people demanding to “break `em up!” have also been demanding “small government!” for decades on end, which in practice simply means a government that works for the corporate private sector.

The morale of this story is that your solution is no solution at all, and to the extent that it is a solution the means to implement it are nowhere to be found.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#72

Post by rurp »

arrosenberg wrote: post #47
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aldi is similar, which is kind of interesting because Trader Joes is one of the Aldis. I always wonder how they get away with blatant trademark infringement. They come up with similar product design for the purpose of confusing consumers. I assume they have deals with most of the name brand products, or their parent companies.

I don't know about Trader Joe's specifically, but a lot of "Store Brands" are made in the same place as the name brand. It's just a giant game of price discrimination.

This is very true. I worked at Traders many years ago and at least back then the store brands were often made by the same name brand company.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#73

Post by zer00eyz »

frumper wrote: post #55
zer00eyz wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point is valid and correct. Most of you remember Twinkies, its parent company going bankrupt and them being gone... Those products were delivered to stores, fresh every day(ish) by manufacturer employees and put ON THE SHELF by them... This still remains true for tons of products. For some products grocery stores function like a merchant on amazon. Data tracking... well that really matters to a grocery store, be…

Amazon claims it doesn't have liability if those Twinkie's cause harm like the grocery store would.

The sale of contaminated beef has happened many many times in my lifetime, leading to massive recalls, even lettuce has seen contamination and outbreaks. The liability has not been on the store, rather the supplier/manufacturer of those products.

The local ford dealer wast at fault for your pinto exploding of the tires blowing off your SUV.

You didn't get to sue the store that sold you cigarets or round up that gave you cancer...

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#74

Post by legitster »

sbacic wrote: post #11

I remember reading once that tech companies, on average, lobby less that traditional industries, such as fossil fuels and finance. I wonder if the lesson they will take from this is that, rather than reform, they should invest more in lobbying. Considering how much money and influence on the public opinion they have, that's a rather scary thought.

More critically, "tech" is concentrated into a small set of voting districts. Whereas traditional industries are spread throughout the country.

Amazon's warehouse network is their most valuable political commodity. They are often the highest paying entry level jobs wherever they are put, represent a huge local bump in payroll and property taxes, and they are being placed in voting districts all around the country.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#76

Post by rdtwo »

akiselev wrote: post #35
newsclues wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grocery retail is much more complicated. They may charge shelf space rent.

They take on the vast majority of the inventory risk, which is the fundamental detail everyone seems to miss. They own what they sell. The complications come from trying to manage that risk - manufacturers who have better products or marketing can afford to pay for prime shelf space which also means it'll move faster.

And also at the end of the day they take on liability for the products they sell. If amazon was liable for its 3rd party garage it wouldn’t be a problem

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#77

Post by throwaway0a5e »

sbacic wrote: post #11

I remember reading once that tech companies, on average, lobby less that traditional industries, such as fossil fuels and finance. I wonder if the lesson they will take from this is that, rather than reform, they should invest more in lobbying. Considering how much money and influence on the public opinion they have, that's a rather scary thought.

The amount of lobbying you need is going to depend a lot on what your industry is.

If you're building mines or manufacturing plants that take years to build and then another year to get running right and then another five to be profitable and your margins are thin you have a much larger interest in ensuring regulations don't change or at least not fast because a few percent change in profit could mean you never recoup your investment over the lifetime of the facility.

It can still take years to build stuff but rarely is it 3+yr and tech margins are fatter and once you have something your can scale up and down much more rapidly.

I think the "natural" amount of lobbying is going to be lower in tech than for industries that do physical things because tech has some things that make working with regulatory uncertainty less terrible.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#78

Post by skak »

Growling_owl wrote: post #46
WalterBright wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that Microsoft never did any lobbying before the anti-trust suit. Once you're big enough to be a target, you have to spend money on lobbying, and contribute to campaigns.

> Once you're big enough to be a target, you have to spend money on lobbying, and contribute to campaigns. Absolutely not. You do the opposite of that. You go at layer zero. At the population level and enter the culture wars arena with the goal of winning. Some of these companies are structured in a way that the founders are poised to retain control of their companies till they retire (Google, Amazon, Facebook, Berks…

> Sanders is pouring manure all over corporate America since 2015

Can you please expand on this? What exactly are you trying to say here?

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#79

Post by pmoriarty »

ethbr0 wrote: post #54

I've come around and landed more on the opinion that we're now enabling our jailors. Light tech regulation was exactly the correct approach in the 1990s (and arguably the 2000s). It enabled mind-boggling rapid and stunning innovation. ... However, the massive corporate fortunes built by the winners of those times are now primarily enabling rent seeking. Google and Facebook's other work is interesting in the same way…

The technology field has much deeper problems that increased competition alone won't fix.

One of the most pernicious effects of tech advances in recent decades has been the rise of surveillance state and surveillance capitalism, and the loss of privacy that comes with that.

This enabling of spying on everyone is not going to be addressed by more competition, and might even enable it further if innovation in that space increases.

Another major issue is economic inequality fostered by the internet and tech booms which, again, the breakup up (or even end) of these companies would not address.

Re: Congress is going to throw the kitchen sink at big tech

#80

Post by EarthLaunch »

WalterBright wrote: post #14
sbacic wrote: post #11

I remember reading once that tech companies, on average, lobby less that traditional industries, such as fossil fuels and finance. I wonder if the lesson they will take from this is that, rather than reform, they should invest more in lobbying. Considering how much money and influence on the public opinion they have, that's a rather scary thought.

I read that Microsoft never did any lobbying before the anti-trust suit. Once you're big enough to be a target, you have to spend money on lobbying, and contribute to campaigns.

A graph shared on Slashdot at the time made a big impression on me. It shows that until the antitrust pressure started ramping up [1], Microsoft didn't lobby (as I recall).

The graph showed a huge spike in lobbying money after antitrust. Of course, this makes perfect sense in terms of incentives on both sides. Perhaps this [2] was the graph.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/images/micro1...

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