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El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

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Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#141

Post by celticninja »

xwolfi wrote: post #90
fasteo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tagging it as "ridiculous" calls for a minimal clarification

Like maybe there are more pressing problems than making bitcoin with this electricity supply. I dont know but it feels wasted on a fad.

You live in a country with a functional banking industry open to almost everyone and a function currency run by your government. You have no frame of reference in which to understand how things work in El Salvador. 70% of people don't have a bank account, the official currency is that of another country. A major source of their GDP is money sent back to El Salvador from people workit abroad. Just because it doesn't seem like a pressing problem to you, does not mean it isn't a pressing problem for some people.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#142

Post by sanderjd »

pocoloco wrote: post #129

As a Salvadoran living abroad but keeping an eye on politics there, I feel the need to comment given the amount of skepticism shown here, which is understandable given the history. I believe that what the president, Nayib Bukele, and his team have done is monumental. The reason is that I also believe that the financial system crashed back in 2008 and has been kept alive by central banks worldwide. Last summer we saw…

Without debating any of your points: bitcoin is a terrible choice for this. It is horribly volatile, it is incredibly expensive to transact in, it is an awful waste of energy.

Using a stablecoin on a proof of stake blockchain with high transaction rates would make a lot of sense.

But that wouldn't help the officials who pushed this get rich from their stash of bitcoin...

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#143

Post by wyager »

lucb1e wrote: post #37

Almost half the electricity produced in El Salvador is from fossil sources (they don't have nuclear power): https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.PETR.ZS?location... Option A: invest in that volcano and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Option B: invest in that volcano and mine bitcoin. B makes them richer so long as other people keep expecting Bitcoin prices to rise (increasing demand), so I can see why they do…

The economics of geothermal are often unfavorable for consumer/industrial electricity production. Bitcoin mining is unique in that provides a consistent consumer for electricity at a reliable price 24/7.

The long-term effect of Bitcoin mining will probably be to subsidize the creation of reliable constant-output power sources like geothermal and nuclear, with some of that capacity being used for consumer/industrial usage during peak hours.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#144

Post by rawtxapp »

fnord123 wrote: post #136
pocoloco wrote: post #129

As a Salvadoran living abroad but keeping an eye on politics there, I feel the need to comment given the amount of skepticism shown here, which is understandable given the history. I believe that what the president, Nayib Bukele, and his team have done is monumental. The reason is that I also believe that the financial system crashed back in 2008 and has been kept alive by central banks worldwide. Last summer we saw…

> Mandating BTC as legal tender is an awesome move. To me the most important benefit is that the 70% of the population which was excluded from banking and relegated to use physical currency will now be included. If the economy is an engine and money is the oil, El Salvador, which had only some drops of oil, will now get a complete oil change with synthetic on top of that. You are 100% incorrect. Bitcoin is wildly def…

> You are 100% incorrect. Bitcoin is wildly deflationary. Therefore it does not encourage an economy to function, it encourages people to hold onto it with white knuckles. It's not oil for the economy, it's sand.

In my opinion, that's the biggest lie that people have been made to believe to justify constant stealing of their purchasing power over time.

People will always spend money for things they need, they will also spend money for things they want, our current system is forcing them to spend it for the sake of spending it causing unnecessary over-consumerism.

It doesn't matter how much Bitcoin price will appreciate in 5 years. If I need to eat, I'll have to spend today, if I want to buy a house, I'll have to spend too. Instead, I will think twice on upgrading to the shiny new iPhone every year, maybe doing it once every 2-3 years, which is a good thing.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#145

Post by sanderjd »

danbruc wrote: post #110

How much money is there to be mined per year? On the order of 10 billion dollar? What share of the total hash rate could you realistically buy and power with your volcano? One percent? Probably not ten percent. What would the investment for the hardware be? I have a hard time imagining that you could make a noticeable difference this way even for an economy like Salvador's. And there are probably many better ways to…

And if you're going to rig up a volcano for power production, maybe use that power for something useful in your own country.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#146

Post by lucb1e »

vidarh wrote: post #127
lucb1e wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but that's not what they're saying, is it? If that was the plan, surely there would be a mention of said plan while they're announcing plans. Would be a bit weird to only announce "we're gonna turn heat into heat+money" but not "and also reduce our climate impact whenever possible".

You're assuming there is a plan, rather than just the president using it to get attention. All that seems to have really happened is that he's asked someone at the majority government owned geothermal power company to look into doing it.

Not exactly. I'm wondering whether the person who says they're going to do something better than what they're currently saying is correct.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#147

Post by wyager »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #91
enchiridion wrote: post #79

So, I'm going to choose to be an optimist when it comes to crypto energy consumption. There has literally never been a more direct reward for efficient energy production.

It's actually a complete waste. All it produces is more security for the blockchain, which is of low marginal value. They could use that energy to produce something of actual value, like hydroponic food, or desalinated water, or run a data center, or literally anything else.

Bitcoin subsidizes the creation of constant-output power sources (geothermal, nuclear) which are not usually economical for highly variable consumer/industrial power usage. Long-term, these sources will probably power the grid during peak hours and power Bitcoin hardware during off-peak.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#149

Post by sanderjd »

mtalantikite wrote: post #123
danbruc wrote: post #110

How much money is there to be mined per year? On the order of 10 billion dollar? What share of the total hash rate could you realistically buy and power with your volcano? One percent? Probably not ten percent. What would the investment for the hardware be? I have a hard time imagining that you could make a noticeable difference this way even for an economy like Salvador's. And there are probably many better ways to…

I think this is only one part of the story for them. If 70% of their country is un-banked, many transactions are probably in cash, and there probably are a lot of undeclared sales and income that is not being taxed. If they can really get their population using tools that would make it easier for the government to collect taxes, make it easier for tourists to visit and spend money, etc then the mining rewards are onl…

Even if crypto is a good solution for all this, bitcoin is a bad one.
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