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El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

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Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#111

Post by paulgb »

vidarh wrote: post #51
lucb1e wrote: post #37

Almost half the electricity produced in El Salvador is from fossil sources (they don't have nuclear power): https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.PETR.ZS?location... Option A: invest in that volcano and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Option B: invest in that volcano and mine bitcoin. B makes them richer so long as other people keep expecting Bitcoin prices to rise (increasing demand), so I can see why they do…

Or option A + B: Invest in more geothermal - they already have a lot -, and use bitcoin mining when demand is low to help offset the cost. If mining makes it cost-effective to increase sources like geothermal past the point where it covers the base load so it reduces the need for peaker plants, that might be worthwhile (though of course the other option is to invest in storage) But the potential geothermal output for…

> use bitcoin mining when demand is low to help offset the cost

I've looked at income statements of a bunch of public companies that mine Bitcoin, and one of the most striking things is how much of the cost is actually depreciation of hardware. Granted, part of this is that they are running the hardware to its limits, but another aspect is that new improved mining hardware comes out frequently and pushes the old hardware over the profitability edge.

Basically, I'm skeptical that anyone can mine Bitcoin profitably without running the hardware 24/7. Other coins that use commodity hardware, maybe.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#112

Post by bgitarts »

lucb1e wrote: post #37

Almost half the electricity produced in El Salvador is from fossil sources (they don't have nuclear power): https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.PETR.ZS?location... Option A: invest in that volcano and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Option B: invest in that volcano and mine bitcoin. B makes them richer so long as other people keep expecting Bitcoin prices to rise (increasing demand), so I can see why they do…

Option A requires building out power transmission and storage.

Option B does not as the mining is always running and near the source.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#113

Post by 29athrowaway »

danbruc wrote: post #110

How much money is there to be mined per year? On the order of 10 billion dollar? What share of the total hash rate could you realistically buy and power with your volcano? One percent? Probably not ten percent. What would the investment for the hardware be? I have a hard time imagining that you could make a noticeable difference this way even for an economy like Salvador's. And there are probably many better ways to…

Mining more bitcoin won't make its market capitalization go up.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#114

Post by randomhodler84 »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #91
enchiridion wrote: post #79

So, I'm going to choose to be an optimist when it comes to crypto energy consumption. There has literally never been a more direct reward for efficient energy production.

It's actually a complete waste. All it produces is more security for the blockchain, which is of low marginal value. They could use that energy to produce something of actual value, like hydroponic food, or desalinated water, or run a data center, or literally anything else.

I’m sorry you don’t see that it has value. It has value to me. In fact, I need a secure, permissionless, censorship resistant, non-state backed value storage system more than I need hydroponic food or desalinated water. The problem is the disconnect between your wants/needs and the needs of others in the world. Waste is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#115

Post by thehappypm »

dadoge wrote: post #31
gjulianm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not mistaken, that 22% is not fees, but the actual wire transfers from people abroad [1,2]. IMHO, it doesn't indicate that transfers are too expensive, but that a lot of people can't find enough work or support in El Salvador and they need to rely on family/friends that emigrated. I don't know how that is going to be solved by Bitcoin. 1: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.TRF.PWKR.DT.GD.ZS?lo... 2: https…

They will literally have more money in their pockets. Good things happen when people have more money in their pockets - people save more, invest more, build more.

Is it actually cheaper to send BTC than it is to wire money directly?

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#116

Post by emodendroket »

deweller wrote: post #92
emodendroket wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a false dichotomy. The infrastructure does not exist and they can't do both things at once

A false dichotomy is when one argues that only option A or option B are available when in fact options C, D, and E also exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

I know what a false dichotomy is. I'm rejecting the claim that we're dealing with one.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#117

Post by 29athrowaway »

cratermoon wrote: post #105
lucb1e wrote: post #37

Almost half the electricity produced in El Salvador is from fossil sources (they don't have nuclear power): https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.PETR.ZS?location... Option A: invest in that volcano and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Option B: invest in that volcano and mine bitcoin. B makes them richer so long as other people keep expecting Bitcoin prices to rise (increasing demand), so I can see why they do…

> B makes them richer B makes the colonizing foreign investors richer. It won't do shit for the poor country.

When a government...

1) owns a profitable state company

2) that does not require the cooperation of the population in order to be profitable

...the result is a dictatorship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#118

Post by ipaddr »

cratermoon wrote: post #105
lucb1e wrote: post #37

Almost half the electricity produced in El Salvador is from fossil sources (they don't have nuclear power): https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.PETR.ZS?location... Option A: invest in that volcano and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Option B: invest in that volcano and mine bitcoin. B makes them richer so long as other people keep expecting Bitcoin prices to rise (increasing demand), so I can see why they do…

> B makes them richer B makes the colonizing foreign investors richer. It won't do shit for the poor country.

How did you reach that conclusion? Wouldn't this be a way to export power without the lines.

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#119

Post by JamilD »

enchiridion wrote: post #79

So, I'm going to choose to be an optimist when it comes to crypto energy consumption. There has literally never been a more direct reward for efficient energy production.

Why is this a more direct reward than generating energy to sell?

In mining, revenue = efficiency * potential energy * BTC per unit produced energy

In selling energy, revenue = efficiency * potential energy * USD per unit produced energy

I don’t see the difference, other than the fact the former just adds to the pool of required energy (it’s strictly additive to the energy produced by the second)

Re: El Salvador Plans to Use Electricity Generated from Volcanoes to Mine Bitcoin

#120

Post by JamilD »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #114
acjohnson55 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually a complete waste. All it produces is more security for the blockchain, which is of low marginal value. They could use that energy to produce something of actual value, like hydroponic food, or desalinated water, or run a data center, or literally anything else.

I’m sorry you don’t see that it has value. It has value to me. In fact, I need a secure, permissionless, censorship resistant, non-state backed value storage system more than I need hydroponic food or desalinated water. The problem is the disconnect between your wants/needs and the needs of others in the world. Waste is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

Are the benefits of proof of work worth the additional cost over other consensus algorithms, to you?
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