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Why Can’t I Sleep?

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Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#151

Post by rootusrootus »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #93
emerged wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea it’s really frustrating how everyone just assumes you are doing something basic wrong, as if you haven’t spent years on all the low hanging fruit. My body/brain simply will not allow me to sleep longer than 6.5 hours and that is often really pushing it. I have absolutely no signs of sleep deprivation. No daytime sleepiness. Every article loves to tell me how horrible it is for me, but there are no symptoms and no…

There is a genetic mutation that a small minority carry that allows them to sleep less (6.2 hrs average). You simply may be one of those people. Sleep duration is just a single metric; apnea, REM+NREM3 duration etc. all matter. You may be getting as much REM+NREM3 in 6.5 as someone gets in 8... and if you don't have apnea, you might get WAY more actual sleep than most people. I went through a period where I believed…

> just _stop_caring_

I agree with this. Worrying about the quality of my sleep caused me more sleep problems than it solved. I quit tracking my sleep, I go to bed when I'm tired and get out of bed when I wake up. E.g. I don't try to keep sleeping just because it's 4AM. My sleep quality has steadily improved as a result. Just roll with it.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#152

Post by wruza »

jm__87 wrote: post #100
bloqs wrote: post #91

I have yet to meet someone who complains about insomnia who actually accurately follows all of the advice. Notably usually absent or poorly followed: - waking up early, at the exact same time, every day. - as SOON as you get up, you need to eat a heavy breakfast of fats and protiens with as few carbs as possible. Some people think they are special snowflakes who "have never been able to eat in the morning", you need…

I am someone who had suffered with insomnia for decades and mostly resolved it in the past few years. I'm not sure why you think eating in the morning is necessary for getting a good sleep - I rarely eat breakfast and usually sleep great these days. The thing that helped me was going to a therapist and doing CBT-I. Probably the top three things for me were just getting out of bed if I couldn't sleep, forcing myself t…

learning to be okay

Cannot stress enough how I second that. A nervous person (who you, a reader, completely are, despite thinking you’re normal) is at risk of self-feeding the problem they have with something.

Also as a person who couldn’t find interest in life events anymore in general (not suicidal, just boring to death), CBT theme itself is like a fresh breath. Like as a geek you never knew what a computer is and just found out.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#153

Post by lanstin »

gotbeans wrote: post #147
koheripbal wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found something that works for me. One of the things that prevents adults from sleeping is worrying about life problems. Getting your brain to shut up about problems that you cannot fix at night is the problem. My trick is to listen (not watch) to old television shows ...all night. I selected a few hundred hours of old television that'd I'd seen many times before, got a pair of very comfortable ear buds to sleep wi…

This. Being a very anxious person in nature, I will add there is something that positively helps anxiety in repetition of something known. I can't put my finger on it but, I always feel aliviated when a new episode starts after the previous one. It's one of the things that has helped me most during hard times, and gave me back being able to fall sleep at night.

This human truth is at the heart of many religious practices. Time as we experience it has aspects of repetition and aspects of novelty. Doing something again and again makes it powerful for us.

For the general issue of worries keep me up at night, I have found that after a few years of meditation, this has almost stopped being issue for me. Maybe if there is some big issue I will wake up one morning early and not be able to stop the thoughts from waking me, so then I bring my problem solving techniques to it and resume sleeping well. Granted some types of stress, financial, child well being, relationship, are more destabilizing and force a higher level of practice than others (like a recent car accident where no one was hurt but my pride and my car and maybe my trust of highway 87). But three slow deep breaths, with all my attention I can summon, note the beginning of the pause and plan reflex, and then nicely numbered breaths, connected to many hours of sitting meditation and those basically chill experiences, and I can let sleepiness do its thing without fuss.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#154

Post by brian_cunnie »

sarsway wrote: post #31

Always the same old advise. Sleep hygiene, exercise, caffeine. Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. For me it's always been impossible to fall into a regular day/night routine, it's actually whenever I try to force it I'm starting to rapidly feel worse. So the solution has been to just flow with it, I sleep when I can, stay awake otherwise. It's fine and I feel good, the real problem t…

Agreed: Sometimes the thing causing insomnia falls outside the realm of that simple advice (sleep hygiene, exercise, caffeine).

Two weeks after being put on Lipitor I began to suffer chronic insomnia for the first time in my life: I had good sleep hygiene (almost perfect), consistent exercise, and minimal caffeine (only in the morning, only before 9am).

The problem lay in my body chemistry: insomnia was not an uncommon side effect of Lipitor. The fix? My doctor swapped out Lipitor for a different statin.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#155

Post by lanstin »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #62
sarsway wrote: post #31

Always the same old advise. Sleep hygiene, exercise, caffeine. Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. For me it's always been impossible to fall into a regular day/night routine, it's actually whenever I try to force it I'm starting to rapidly feel worse. So the solution has been to just flow with it, I sleep when I can, stay awake otherwise. It's fine and I feel good, the real problem t…

There are a few things that actually make things worse that lead people to get stuck in a negative spiral. Basically alcohol makes you drowsy and helps you fall asleep. But you wake up dehydrated, not very well rested, and in some cases hungover. People drink coffee to fix that, which makes it harder to sleep. Stress levels feed into that as well as it leads to drinking and other ways for people to relieve stress. So…

The alarm clock thing is surely a sign of an in control life but I think is also a sign of aging. It is a huge change for me and a bit bothersome at times, tho I have found ways to enjoy the early morning with no pressing tasks.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#156

Post by godshatter »

makison wrote: post #129

I have found Huberman podcast incredibly helpful - in detail explanation(too much sometimes) of how brain works. There are 4 episodes(1.5h each) dedicated just to sleep. The whole podcast is great. https://youtu.be/nm1TxQj9IsQ

I just came across the Huberman podcast a few days ago after seeing him in an interview with (I think) Rich Roll. Fascinating stuff, it's already been helpful to me in a couple of different ways.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#157

Post by vbsteven »

wruza wrote: post #149

Ironically, I fixed my moderate chronic insomnia succesfully by going to a doctor with a completely unrelated( citation needed ) set of symptoms. My CBT therapist wanted me to fall asleep during the appointment to perform another technique, but obviously I could not. He said to not worry and explained a routine which I’m happy to share to those who didn’t try yet: - lay, relax, comfort^ - do not move further - do not…

I read about this technique once in the context of the military. Soldiers were trained to use this technique to fall asleep fast under stressful circumstances.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#158

Post by fernandotakai »

wruza wrote: post #149

Ironically, I fixed my moderate chronic insomnia succesfully by going to a doctor with a completely unrelated( citation needed ) set of symptoms. My CBT therapist wanted me to fall asleep during the appointment to perform another technique, but obviously I could not. He said to not worry and explained a routine which I’m happy to share to those who didn’t try yet: - lay, relax, comfort^ - do not move further - do not…

funny enough, i use the techniques that headspace taught me to fall asleep -- which are REALLY similar to the ones you described.

focus on your body, focus on your breath, try not to "pay attention" to anything.

it totally helped me, and i can now fall asleep much easier than before.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#159

Post by lanstin »

dsego wrote: post #33
sarsway wrote: post #31

Always the same old advise. Sleep hygiene, exercise, caffeine. Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. For me it's always been impossible to fall into a regular day/night routine, it's actually whenever I try to force it I'm starting to rapidly feel worse. So the solution has been to just flow with it, I sleep when I can, stay awake otherwise. It's fine and I feel good, the real problem t…

I can't deny that electronic devices and screens at night make me stay awake longer. The same with coffee after 4-5pm.

My biggest stay up too late things are when my wife is out of town and I am lonely and start some tablet based entertainment thing, whether Twitter or Netflix or just Wikipedia. (Usually hacker news is somewhat self limiting as far as time goes.). Since COVID I drink so much caffeine but also I am working like 7 am to 7 8 or 9 every day but weekends and just exhausted. Error prone too. I have to force myself not to do changes later in the week; not because of not wanting a Saturday incident but because I can’t trust my own judgement as much.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#160

Post by travisjungroth »

swader999 wrote: post #139
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as one data point here, cutting caffeine after noon fixed my insomnia back in college. So it works for at least some people. I'm sure it doesn't work for everyone. So I'm one of the lucky ones. The other thing that seems to have helped me has been allowing natural light into my bedroom. I used to black out my windows and sleep in, then wake up disoriented since my bedroom was pitch black. Now, the sunrise wakes…

Cutting after mid day is wise. Every liver clears caffeine differently. There's a threshold where your liver won't actively process caffeine if you don't drink enough. For me, I sleep better on two cups in the morning but just one will keep me up all night.

Do you have a source on this I can look into? Caffeine really keeps me up. I thought small amounts would do that less, but it sounds like that might make it worse.
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