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Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

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Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#31

Post by roenxi »

beckman466 wrote: post #12
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

> I suspect all of this is primarily cultural first, and not related specifically to work, the economy, pricing of good or services like buying a home and starting a family, which would come second. Hmmm I think you're wrong. It sounds like you've got survivorship bias, big time. Most people want to contribute, but the economic system fucks them and makes them dependent. Examples include: the intellectual property re…

> Can you really look at the Blackrock disaster [4] (Wall Street slumlordism) and tell me the system doesn't harm people?

Yeah, someone could do that for any system. "A horrible thing happened somewhere" or even "this part of the market is totally screwed up" are facts about every plausible alternative. So though they may be facts about the current system, they don't tell us how to improve the situation.

You can make an argument that the problem is systemic, but having one example of a problem doesn't do anything except score rhetorical points in a game where evidence and argument don't really matter.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#32

Post by onion2k »

speeder wrote: post #23

I lived with my parents on and off until I was 31, that was when I managed to marry and move out hopefully permanently this time. It is Anedacta... but I think I know what is going on. 1. The labor market is a mess, for example today I got another rejection letter from a job I sent my resume, thing is, I am literally perfect for the job, my resume (that I didn't tailor for it) matched perfectly what they asked, even…

I had a whole company to make those with millions of downloads

After my first startup failed I was rejected for developer jobs, and a few places said it was because they thought I'd want to quit and start a new company rather than stay there for the long haul. More anecdata obviously, but some employers see someone's previous independence as a forewarning of that person looking for independence again in the near future.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#33

Post by commandlinefan »

cashewchoo wrote: post #15
nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #5

We failed to bring up a generation of girls willing to be providers to a stay-at-home husband.

I know this is bait, but I want to provide my experience as counter-example. I went to a STEM college where anyone who graduates could quite reasonably expect to be able to build themselves a middle-class career, live comfortably, and perhaps even have some economic mobility (moving from middle-class to upper-middle, mainly...). There weren't a lot of women there, and you would expect that what women were there would…

> as counter-example ... the kind of woman who would be interested in having a life-long career ... that is not the case ... men who wish they could be stay-at-home dads

You seem to be saying the same thing OP is saying: there are few women who are comfortable being the primary (or sole) breadwinners.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#34

Post by AndrewUnmuted »

futureshock wrote: post #22

This seems like a kind rational economic choice. If there are not enough good jobs that can support independent living, providing for a spouse, buying a home or raising a family, then staying home with the easy accomplishment of video games makes sense. Most people never live outside their home states and can't afford to leave the support network of their family and close friends. If you grew up in a medium or high c…

Until this year, I lived in the same place I grew up, one of the highest cost-of-living places on the planet: NYC. Until the pandemic, the goal of owning a home did seem totally out of reach for me, even with my remote SV tech job salary.

Then I moved to an unincorporated community in TN, because NYC's lockdowns, mask mandates, and general cultural decay was too much for me to bear - financially, emotionally, and even ethically.

I now own 15 acres of land with two houses on it. The median income in this part is If you can leave the major cities in the US, it's possible for life to become a whole lot nicer.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#35

Post by BitwiseFool »

futureshock wrote: post #22

This seems like a kind rational economic choice. If there are not enough good jobs that can support independent living, providing for a spouse, buying a home or raising a family, then staying home with the easy accomplishment of video games makes sense. Most people never live outside their home states and can't afford to leave the support network of their family and close friends. If you grew up in a medium or high c…

I'm just now middle aged and even when I was a twenty-something I never felt as ambitious or as risk embracing as I was supposed to be. My father and grandfather got into way more trouble than I ever did, with just about every facet of their life. My stories are absolutely tame in comparison.

It turns out the steady dopamine faucet is a stronger motivator than going out and trying to flirt, date, make friends, network, or hustle. Just spending time on the PC isn't even particularly fun, but as soon as someone proposes plans I suddenly feel like backing out and retreating back into my own world. I definitely sense this isn't "normal" for men and it's probably a consequence of modernity.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#36

Post by CydeWeys »

Part of this problem is our societal failure to build enough housing to keep up with the increasing number of people, with a resulting increase in housing costs that has significantly outpaced the median wage. If you can't afford to live on your own, and can't afford housing where the jobs are located, then you're more likely to live with your parents and be unemployed.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#37

Post by chromaton »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #19

What is strange is this has been going on since the 1950s and it is even invariant in relation to economic cycles. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001 I am also an exception to this rule (I am employed but I live at home). Currently I'm saving for a down payment to a Condo / House.

The population is getting older. https://www.statista.com/statistics/241494/median-age-of-the...

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#38

Post by k-mcgrady »

marcellus23 wrote: post #21
kogepathic wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> another friend of mine basically refuses to date anymore because he thinks the sort of culture of Tinder dating is a waste of time that favors women disproportionately. My female friends (I'm male) with online dating profiles have shown me their matches and conversations, and it's bleak. They all mostly have an average profile and still receive thousands of likes/hearts/swipes and messages, but the mean amount of e…

It's certainly believable that women don't enjoy dating apps, but I think it's difficult to make the case that it's equally hard for them (in terms of successfully getting a date) when they have thousands of matches and many men I know have none.

Thousands of matches isn’t a good thing. If you ever have the opportunity ask a female friend to show you the kind of messages they get on dating apps. They’re pretty appalling. It genuinely worries me that there are so many creeps out there. The men you know may not be getting many matches but at least the ones they get are more than likely from relatively normal people. If I had to sort through the garbage women do on dating apps I wouldn’t be on them.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#39

Post by BitwiseFool »

CydeWeys wrote: post #36

Part of this problem is our societal failure to build enough housing to keep up with the increasing number of people, with a resulting increase in housing costs that has significantly outpaced the median wage. If you can't afford to live on your own, and can't afford housing where the jobs are located, then you're more likely to live with your parents and be unemployed.

Adding to this, we've also abandoned the idea of building out in the middle of nowhere and linking it to a city center with a rail line. I'd gladly buy a cheap home in the boonies if I could take a train into work instead of driving.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#40

Post by blakesterz »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #19

What is strange is this has been going on since the 1950s and it is even invariant in relation to economic cycles. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001 I am also an exception to this rule (I am employed but I live at home). Currently I'm saving for a down payment to a Condo / House.

That's quite an interesting graph. I wonder if it is also influenced by things to do with average age or age of retirement, time spent in school, or something like that. Just looking at it makes me wonder about demographics/education/etc. That's about a 20% drop over the years, I would assume caused by a number of factors.
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