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Why Can’t I Sleep?

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Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#141

Post by swader999 »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #93
emerged wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea it’s really frustrating how everyone just assumes you are doing something basic wrong, as if you haven’t spent years on all the low hanging fruit. My body/brain simply will not allow me to sleep longer than 6.5 hours and that is often really pushing it. I have absolutely no signs of sleep deprivation. No daytime sleepiness. Every article loves to tell me how horrible it is for me, but there are no symptoms and no…

There is a genetic mutation that a small minority carry that allows them to sleep less (6.2 hrs average). You simply may be one of those people. Sleep duration is just a single metric; apnea, REM+NREM3 duration etc. all matter. You may be getting as much REM+NREM3 in 6.5 as someone gets in 8... and if you don't have apnea, you might get WAY more actual sleep than most people. I went through a period where I believed…

How do you check for whether you have this mutation? Sequence your genome? Any recommendations?

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#142

Post by swader999 »

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #106
unishark wrote: post #36

> ...extreme night owls (who might naturally sleep, for example, from 2 to 10 a.m.)... Uh what's the next adjective after "extreme"? This reminds me of companies with so-called "flex time" where you have the option to come in as late as 9 if you want to.

Well, technically it's a disorder at that point - delayed sleep phase disorder, which I have secondary to ADHD. Circadian rhythm is genetically determined and all long term studies of delayed sleep phase show it's essentially impossible to change. However it's one of those things that's a disorder only because it goes against what our societies expect. I used to think I had insomnia for years, because I would try to…

ADHD meds can also confound sleep unfortunately.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#143

Post by rapsey »

fighterpilot wrote: post #127
rapsey wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vitamin D hugely increased the quality of sleep I got. But interestingly not actually taking D3 supplements, using a vitamin D lamp got the job done.

Interesting, any skin cancer risk with that?

The wavelength is chosen to minimize the risk. The lamp is used to treat skin problems and the amount of time for that use is quite a bit longer than just to get some vitamin d from it.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#144

Post by blacksqr »

sarsway wrote: post #31

Always the same old advise. Sleep hygiene, exercise, caffeine. Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. For me it's always been impossible to fall into a regular day/night routine, it's actually whenever I try to force it I'm starting to rapidly feel worse. So the solution has been to just flow with it, I sleep when I can, stay awake otherwise. It's fine and I feel good, the real problem t…

Up until my early 30's, I could never fall asleep before 1-2AM. If I could sleep until 10AM I felt great, any earlier and I felt miserable all day. This put me seriously out of sync with the expectations of the corporate work world.

In the 1990's medicinal herbs became popular and easy to get, including sleep aids. I discovered rather by accident that if I took melatonin or valerian right before going to bed, then popped a caffeine pill immediately upon waking up, I felt normal and productive during the day, even with only sixish hours of sleep. I started doing that routinely during the work week. Changed my life.

My sleep rhythms finally adjusted after about ten years of doing this, so I can now go to bed at 11pm-12 and wake up like a normal person in the morning without the aid of the herbs or the caffeine.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#145

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

koheripbal wrote: post #117
codingdave wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. True, but that is a self-fulfilling definition. For most people, that advice will work. For the minority for whom it does not work, they have chronic insomnia. It does not invalidate the advice, it just means that some people are out of the norm and need something else. That being said, I agree with you. We all would be healthier if we'd just slee…

I found something that works for me. One of the things that prevents adults from sleeping is worrying about life problems. Getting your brain to shut up about problems that you cannot fix at night is the problem. My trick is to listen (not watch) to old television shows ...all night. I selected a few hundred hours of old television that'd I'd seen many times before, got a pair of very comfortable ear buds to sleep wi…

I’m using Hearts of Space or the chillout mixshows from truehouse.net for the same effect.

Of the latter, I prefer the shows I’ve been listening to for over a decade.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#146

Post by tailspin2019 »

pindab0ter wrote: post #136
koheripbal wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found something that works for me. One of the things that prevents adults from sleeping is worrying about life problems. Getting your brain to shut up about problems that you cannot fix at night is the problem. My trick is to listen (not watch) to old television shows ...all night. I selected a few hundred hours of old television that'd I'd seen many times before, got a pair of very comfortable ear buds to sleep wi…

What would you recommend for comfortable earbuds?

I used to find the first generation Apple AirPods to be quite good. For me, they sat relatively flush in my ear, so falling asleep with them in wasn't uncomfortable, and they'd be just loose enough to gently fall out without me noticing once asleep.

The latest gen don't work as well (for sleep) as their shape is slightly different (more "bulbous" perhaps) and are much more uncomfortable to fall asleep with in my opinion.

As to how wise it is to sleep with tiny bluetooth transmitters inside your skull... that's a different question.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#147

Post by gotbeans »

koheripbal wrote: post #117
codingdave wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. True, but that is a self-fulfilling definition. For most people, that advice will work. For the minority for whom it does not work, they have chronic insomnia. It does not invalidate the advice, it just means that some people are out of the norm and need something else. That being said, I agree with you. We all would be healthier if we'd just slee…

I found something that works for me. One of the things that prevents adults from sleeping is worrying about life problems. Getting your brain to shut up about problems that you cannot fix at night is the problem. My trick is to listen (not watch) to old television shows ...all night. I selected a few hundred hours of old television that'd I'd seen many times before, got a pair of very comfortable ear buds to sleep wi…

This.

Being a very anxious person in nature, I will add there is something that positively helps anxiety in repetition of something known.

I can't put my finger on it but, I always feel aliviated when a new episode starts after the previous one. It's one of the things that has helped me most during hard times, and gave me back being able to fall sleep at night.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#148

Post by 411111111111111 »

ta1234567890 wrote: post #138
sarsway wrote: post #31

Always the same old advise. Sleep hygiene, exercise, caffeine. Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. For me it's always been impossible to fall into a regular day/night routine, it's actually whenever I try to force it I'm starting to rapidly feel worse. So the solution has been to just flow with it, I sleep when I can, stay awake otherwise. It's fine and I feel good, the real problem t…

> the real problem though is the schedule the world runs on. Yes! People have different circadian rhythms. Also teenagers tend to naturally be night owls. But the world doesn’t care much. Even having schedule flexibility at work, if you have kids that you need to take to school, then you have to follow their schedule.

Most seditary people turn into "night owls" if they don't pay attention.

Your phrasing makes it sound like people can't help themselves, but thats just wrong. Sleeping habits are actually an issue of discipline unless you're suffering from an actual medical condition... Which are extremely rare

Either start working out/do cardio or reduce your sleeping time until you're able to go to sleep at the time you wish.

some things are actually controllable if the person in question cared enough to actually learn about themselves.

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#149

Post by wruza »

Ironically, I fixed my moderate chronic insomnia succesfully by going to a doctor with a completely unrelated(citation needed) set of symptoms. My CBT therapist wanted me to fall asleep during the appointment to perform another technique, but obviously I could not. He said to not worry and explained a routine which I’m happy to share to those who didn’t try yet:

  - lay, relax, comfort^
  - do not move further
  - do not put your arms into a position where your breath could disturb them
  - focus on what you feel in your body
  - scan slowly from head to neck to arms to belly to legs
  - name every minor feeling, pain, pressure, etc in your mind
  - for(;;) the above three steps, fading your inner voice to just a conception of thought
  - breathe in normal, breath out slowly
  - continue to scan your body
  - count integers on each breath if you slip into thinking
  - do not f…ing move ever
^ you may experiment with room temperatures and covering your body parts for a while; also reduce street sounds to not react to these

At the first time using this technique I spent a couple of hours semi-dreaming and turning in the bed, but in a couple of days, after waking up I could only remember the first two steps. Falling asleep in just 5-10 minutes seemed completely unreal to me, but that’s what I’m doing every day now. As a bonus, I recalled the thing my doctor wanted me to recall right at the first at-home experiment.

The theory behind that is that if your insomnia is related to an unstoppable thinking process (a form of an anxiety psychosis, I guess), then there is a hack: you cannot think when you’re focusing on what you feel in your body. You either scan yourself or think (even subconsciously), like a single core multitasking. By burning 100% cpu on sensations, you basically extinguish the fires in your mind, deoxygenating them.

Hope this helps at least some of you, guys! (And sorry if you already tried)

Re: Why Can’t I Sleep?

#150

Post by wruza »

koheripbal wrote: post #117
codingdave wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone with chronic insomnia can tell you none of that really works. True, but that is a self-fulfilling definition. For most people, that advice will work. For the minority for whom it does not work, they have chronic insomnia. It does not invalidate the advice, it just means that some people are out of the norm and need something else. That being said, I agree with you. We all would be healthier if we'd just slee…

I found something that works for me. One of the things that prevents adults from sleeping is worrying about life problems. Getting your brain to shut up about problems that you cannot fix at night is the problem. My trick is to listen (not watch) to old television shows ...all night. I selected a few hundred hours of old television that'd I'd seen many times before, got a pair of very comfortable ear buds to sleep wi…

One of the things that prevents adults from sleeping is worrying about life problems

And that adult may not even realize it, because that worry is usually covered by layers of coping. “I’m fine” is adults worst enemy.

My trick is to listen (not watch) to old television shows ...all night

Before using a technique described in itt’s root comment, I also used for-sleep hour+ long asmr videos. Cannot compare their effectiveness because I don’t have a tv.

If I dream at all - it's actually about the show that I'm listening to. It doesn't seem to have any negative impact though

Make sure they don’t broadcast red propaganda in the middle of the night! /jk

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