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CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

netherlandsnewslive.com

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Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#181

Post by RONROC »

bruce343434 wrote: post #162
RONROC wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing market crash is not inevitable. The market crashed in 08 because banks gave loans to unqualified people who could not afford their mortgage(s) otherwise. The current housing “bubble” is driven by-and-large by private equity groups who see the real estate market (more so the single family home) as the safest place to park their money. Thing is, these people can afford them.

More of an "entire society" crash then as actual working people fail to acquire homes.

I agree. Once Wall St becomes your landlord, something is irreparably broken.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#182

Post by skrebbel »

Bishizel wrote: post #175
tluyben2 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does not say that though: he acts like he wants to protect the 'dumb people' (dumb is mine: but what else fits?) by banning stuff (which NL seems to want to do more and more) (I am Dutch). Does not explain why he would not want to ban stock markets as assets like MSFT are massively overvalued as well and will crash badly next crisis. Sure cryptocurrencies have no intrinsic value and energy waste etc etc but bannin…

I think it’s tough to assign value like this. People argued that the internet had no real value for basically all of the late 90s.

People keep repeating this but bitcoin is well over a decade old now. And it still has no value other than, well, "value". That first day you got internet in, say, 1997, you were in touch with people far away and could look all kinds of shit up and make webpages and pull godwins on usenet and download winzip from tucows and it was amazing.

I think your only argument holds, slightly, if by "real value" you mean "money".

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#183

Post by tluyben2 »

Bishizel wrote: post #175
tluyben2 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does not say that though: he acts like he wants to protect the 'dumb people' (dumb is mine: but what else fits?) by banning stuff (which NL seems to want to do more and more) (I am Dutch). Does not explain why he would not want to ban stock markets as assets like MSFT are massively overvalued as well and will crash badly next crisis. Sure cryptocurrencies have no intrinsic value and energy waste etc etc but bannin…

I think it’s tough to assign value like this. People argued that the internet had no real value for basically all of the late 90s.

My accountant was saying in 1998 he never bought stock but this eternal new money machine he could not miss out on. I made a shitload those days because I invest but am a huge stoploss fan; I did not advise him anything but he lost a few 100k and only recently recovered. The internet was a good idea though (he sold the shares though at about the lowest point so recovered is not from shares). As were tulip bulbs were but just not at that price. So who knows this will stabilize at $2/btc in 20 years and it will be normal. In the meanwhile, I buy and set stoploss and invest long sure bets, like msft in, well msft and such. But those have stoploss as well as this will all crash. The real question is: which assets will crash to $0 and which don't. As the latter you can just hold and you get your money back eventually. I had oracle (forgive me) and msft as cases of the latter in the 2000 crash and Borland/inprise as cases of the former. I had stoploss high on inprise and low on the others and made bizarre profits on inprise and higher but more long term profits on the others. If you ask me, these 'look over periods of 20-30 years' are smart with some assets and basically, imho, insane with others and I believe inprise and btc belong in the latter category. Stoploss (and you just adjust it UP over time) will save your hide. Noone listens though as it is not 'what real traders do'. Good luck with that.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#184

Post by TrackerFF »

moepstar wrote: post #111

> “After all, the product itself has no intrinsic value and derives its appeal only from acceptance by others.” Ok, what's the intrinsic value of a $ or € bill then?

Ask yourself this: Assume that you have little or no knowledge in foreign countries, but you want to purchase some of their currencies - how would you go on and classify these currencies as "good" or "bad", when viewing them as potential investments. Besides simply looking up their historical exchange rates.

It's obviously a complex problem, as we're dealing with parities here - but war/conflicts, poor economies, extreme inflation, and similar factors will drive the currency down. On the other hand, peace, strong economy / industries, etc. will drive them up.

One might associate the intrinsic value of a currency with the overall economic health of its country, along with things like geopolitical stability, internal policies, and what not. It's a good mix of micro, macro, and politics.

With cryptocurrencies, it's a bit harder to measure things that like. It's a stateless currency, with no industries or workers behind it. There are no wars or conflicts either. No policies made by politicians that can affect its value (in the abstract notion).

Essentially, you only have supply and demand to go after - when trying to predict its future value.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#185

Post by didroe »

simonw wrote: post #131
celticninja wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap plastic disposable goods shipped from China on polluting cargo ships are a huge source of environmental damage. This is a direct result of consumerism. Where is the plan to deal with that? Bitcoin energy use is just a stick used to beat it, it is not a genuine concern. Why? Because most people who raise the issue are not green environmentalists, they are just bitcoin detractors. They don't highlight the issues…

> Because most people who raise the issue are not green environmentalists, they are just bitcoin detractors. Why would someone be a Bitcoin detractor if not for environmental reasons?

Aside from the environmental issue, I think Bitcoin is a poorly designed currency that ignores economic history/principles.

I have a really low expectation of it being able to provide price stability.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#186

Post by skylabmelody »

lottin wrote: post #177
skylabmelody wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand your fierce will to ban crypto for environmental impact reason. However you cannot ban bitcoin, you just can't, that the whole purpose of its existence. And black markets have always existed and always will.

> you just can't Sorry, that's not an argument.

You could make it illegal by law tomorrow, it doesn't change the fact that bitcoin would still exist and be used due to its decentralized nature.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#187

Post by dangerface »

dataflow wrote: post #4

Everyone needs to ban Bitcoin... and likely other cryptocurrencies. Not only are they by far the biggest enablers of ransomware (which we're supposedly taking seriously now), but Bitcoin emissions alone could push global warming above 2°C. [1] Bitcoin already consumes 0.55% of energy produced globally. [2] [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-018-0321-8 [2] https://hbr.org/2021/05/how-much-energy-does-bitcoin-a…

These claims have both been debunked. The majority of energy used by bitcoin is renewable [1]. Ransomware was enabled by credit cards before bitcoin was a thing. The increase in ransomware is because of the increase in the value of that data not the ability to extort.

[1] https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/36672/renewable-energy-...

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#189

Post by dangerface »

Varqu wrote: post #20
dataflow wrote: post #4

Everyone needs to ban Bitcoin... and likely other cryptocurrencies. Not only are they by far the biggest enablers of ransomware (which we're supposedly taking seriously now), but Bitcoin emissions alone could push global warming above 2°C. [1] Bitcoin already consumes 0.55% of energy produced globally. [2] [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-018-0321-8 [2] https://hbr.org/2021/05/how-much-energy-does-bitcoin-a…

Good luck banning internet access. Even if you ban crypto exchanges and money transfers to them, you cannot ban a single entity called Bitcoin Co, nor you can ban individuals from possessing it. You could potentially ban crypto miners from using the electrical energy, but that doesn't ban Bitcoin either. Any other ideas? :)

The majority of bitcoin is mined directly on renewable energy because of the cost savings, they don't use the grid I dunno how the government would shut that down unless they just banned renewable energy LOL. The amount of fud around crypto is silly.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#190

Post by dangerface »

airza wrote: post #44
Varqu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck banning internet access. Even if you ban crypto exchanges and money transfers to them, you cannot ban a single entity called Bitcoin Co, nor you can ban individuals from possessing it. You could potentially ban crypto miners from using the electrical energy, but that doesn't ban Bitcoin either. Any other ideas? :)

Cut off its access to the global banking and finance system. That will curb its usage real quick.

How?
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