Live data from Hacker News

Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

bloomberg.com

11–20 of 1001 posts

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#11
post #2

If the goal is gender equality: what's wrong with this? The idea that every able bodied person has to work is not supposed to be the way our society functions; at least not in the last 100,000 years.

> The idea that every able bodied person has to work is not supposed to be the way our society functions; at least not in the last 100,000 years.

So the fruit of who's labour exactly are they entitled to then? And can I also get in on that action? I would like to get something other people made without working any more. I don't see why I as a productive member of society should get less than someone who festers in their own bodily fluids.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#12

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

> I suspect all of this is primarily cultural first, and not related specifically to work, the economy, pricing of good or services like buying a home and starting a family, which would come second.

Hmmm I think you're wrong. It sounds like you've got survivorship bias, big time.

Most people want to contribute, but the economic system fucks them and makes them dependent. Examples include: the intellectual property regime and monopolistic parasitism of the knowledge commons [1], neoliberal philanthrocapitalism [2] and the completely disgusting and neocolonial division of labour under global capitalism [3].

Can you really look at the Blackrock disaster [4] (Wall Street slumlordism), or the IRS papers or the Panama Papers and tell me that the system doesn't harm people?

[1] https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals... and https://anthempress.com/kicking-away-the-ladder-pb

[3] https://anti-imperialism.org/2012/09/18/understanding-and-ch...

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27448175

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#13

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

It’s sort of like when women entered the work force and built careers. They started to get married later and having kids later.

Men are now reverting to the mean a little bit. This could be a natural normalization of a situation where men were exalted as industrious, and women were literally left at home. Both extremes are bad.

One day we’ll just have two 30 year old stay-at-homes get married and not think twice about it. No expectations or judgement on ones job and aspirations, or gender specific duties. Just two genuine deadbeats.

What’s so distasteful about it? Truly nothing, but yet, why doesn’t it feel right?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#14

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

> I suspect all of this is primarily cultural first, and not related specifically to work, the economy, pricing of good or services like buying a home and starting a family, which would come second. Hmmm I think you're wrong. It sounds like you've got survivorship bias, big time. Most people want to contribute, but the economic system fucks them and makes them dependent. Examples include: the intellectual property re…

Perhaps I am. Surely if good paying work was easier to find and homes were approachable more as a commodity then I'm sure this would sort itself out.

I've spoken about what REITs do for years on HN. I've worked for them a couple of times as well, so I've seen what goes on first hand.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#15

We failed to bring up a generation of girls willing to be providers to a stay-at-home husband.

I know this is bait, but I want to provide my experience as counter-example.

I went to a STEM college where anyone who graduates could quite reasonably expect to be able to build themselves a middle-class career, live comfortably, and perhaps even have some economic mobility (moving from middle-class to upper-middle, mainly...).

There weren't a lot of women there, and you would expect that what women were there would be disproportionately the kind of woman who would be interested in having a life-long career.

Just anecdotally, looking at peers who graduated with me, that is not the case. Many are married, and many have chosen to end their careers (where finances allow) to stay at home.

If anything, I would argue the main failing we've committed upon the young generation (regardless of gender) is to provide them an economic framework wherein more than a single-digit percent of wage earners can hope to raise a family on a single income.

In my experience, there are a growing number of men who wish they could be stay-at-home dads if finances permitted.

But instead, most households are dual-income out of necessity.

And beyond that, we've also demonized living with your parents pretty thoroughly, so people are hesitant to save money and get free childcare by living with their extended family.

Something else I want to mention is how poorly we've tailored the current world to making raising a family easier. Letting your kids go further than your lawn unsupervised is tantamount to child abuse now. Childcare is absurdly expensive, low-quality, low-availability (enrollment is headcount-capacity-limited in most places) and low-flexibility (many places either want your full-time enrollment or not at all. You can't just pick some days).

And we've also demonstrated that we're, as a system, willing to totally f** over parents when disasters strike. Covid has been a total disaster for dual-income families with children. I've heard it was not uncommon for it to be "lucky" a partner was laid off because otherwise they would've had to quit, without unemployment benefits, to care for kids full-time.

Anyway, my point is, we've made it really fucking inconvenient to have kids and now there's all this overly-simplistic sexist whinging from a certain segment of the population about how it's somehow all the fault of young women. It's disgusting both from a moral standpoint and in how intellectually lazy it is.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#16
post #2

If the goal is gender equality: what's wrong with this? The idea that every able bodied person has to work is not supposed to be the way our society functions; at least not in the last 100,000 years.

These men are not being supported by their wives, they just don't go and form a new family. Women in that age range are generally more educated than their male counterparts and they earn more, so this statistic makes sense. They also have trouble finding a male partner, especially because one of their requirements is that they should earn more than them. This sounds like an impending demographics / societal disaster.…

The way to correct this impending demographic disaster is not going to be a popular one. Ironically among women who are complaining about the lack of 'marriageable' men.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#17

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

> another friend of mine basically refuses to date anymore because he thinks the sort of culture of Tinder dating is a waste of time that favors women disproportionately.

My female friends (I'm male) with online dating profiles have shown me their matches and conversations, and it's bleak. They all mostly have an average profile and still receive thousands of likes/hearts/swipes and messages, but the mean amount of effort from men messaging them is zero to none.

Maybe your friend considers the situation of having fewer women on dating apps as somehow "favoring" their gender, but from what I've seen and heard, sorting through an inbox of unsolicited genital photos and copy pasta pickup artist lines is not something most women would say they enjoy spending their time doing.

If instead he's referring to apps like Bumble where the woman has to make the first move, see above for why some apps choose to operate with that model.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#19
What is strange is this has been going on since the 1950s and it is even invariant in relation to economic cycles.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001

I am also an exception to this rule (I am employed but I live at home). Currently I'm saving for a down payment to a Condo / House.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#20

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

I see this too. One thing that has struck me lately, is the similarity between the addictive nature of gambling and video games. Going to a casino once in a while or playing some video games with friends is fine. But the amount of time some people spend on video games really mimics a gambling addiction, except it's less frowned upon because they're mostly losing time instead of money. But if you consider the opportunity cost, they're losing a lot of money too.
Post reply on HN