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Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

nltimes.nl

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Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#61

Post by hencq »

wyager wrote: post #57
jokethrowaway wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiat is backed by weapons. The same weapons that defend your house from other countries and force you to give up half your salary. My main criticism to cryptocurrencies is that they're mostly unbacked. The ones that are backed by Fiat have similar problems to Fiat currency (why would I need that?), the ones that are backed by physical assets are much more interesting - but they don't seem to be the mainstream ones, p…

> Fiat is backed by weapons. This is one of the most hilarious misunderstandings of how monetization works. Is someone from the army going to come shoot me if I charge too many USD for a hamburger?

No, but someone from the police will show up if you don't pay your taxes in USD.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#63

Post by jokethrowaway »

md_ wrote: post #35
atemerev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While in Switzerland we do have some weapons, it is not like Swiss franc is backed by our army, which is purely defensive. And, in fact, here you can pay municipal and cantonal taxes with cryptocurrencies.

I think the parent is talking about chartalism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartalism ), which is essentially the idea that fiat currencies derive their value from the fact that taxes must be paid in them. A sort of "just so" story about this would go something like (with much credit to David Graeber): "Way back when, some Assyrian king got the great idea to, instead of giving their soldiers food and drink, give…

I think the value of a currency comes from the creditworthiness of the country issuing it.

If someone nuked the USA and burn down the entire USA army and economy, the dollar wouldn't have much value.

The USA army protects the states. Switzerland, as per parent's post, has defense agreements with other countries. The likelihood of Switzerland being attacked or destroyed is also very low. What would the international community think of a country attacking Switzerland?

If I started my own country in the middle of the ocean and started issuing my own currency it would be worthless. Maybe if I do some trade deals and a defense agreement with some other country it would start having some value.

The difference with BTC is that there is no-one defending BTC with weapons. It can all be banned tomorrow if global governments think it would be good to do so. Similarly, I can spin my own fork of BTC and achieve similar technology advance as BTC.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#64

Post by aerique »

So this pretty much came out of the blue.

The Netherlands has been a pretty good place for cryptocurrencies. Not actively promoting them like some places but also not actively campaigning against it like others and the taxes on it are light.

It needs to be mentioned that the CPB head is saying this as a personal opinion, so it has people wondering what his agenda is.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#65

Post by wyager »

hencq wrote: post #61
wyager wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fiat is backed by weapons. This is one of the most hilarious misunderstandings of how monetization works. Is someone from the army going to come shoot me if I charge too many USD for a hamburger?

No, but someone from the police will show up if you don't pay your taxes in USD.

Great, so there’s guaranteed to be enough demand for USD to pay tax obligations, which probably represents like 3% of its other sources of demand.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#66

Post by rijoja »

elzbardico wrote: post #45
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #20

Bans are totally justified. They will achieve two major outcomes: 1. Tank the price, thus freeing up energy and advanced manufactured goods (which are in shortages right now) for proper productive use. 2. Significantly lessen the instances of Ransomware, since companies will have no legal mechanism to actually pay. Whether the coins continue to exist informally and are traded in some kind of primitive barter system i…

As long as ransomware is possible, it will continue. Criminals will come with a way to be paid, and some of those ways would involve some level of physical violence and organized armed intermediates.

Besides the ledger of all transactions are totally in the public. Which means that anyone could trace any transaction.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#67

Post by rijoja »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #20

Bans are totally justified. They will achieve two major outcomes: 1. Tank the price, thus freeing up energy and advanced manufactured goods (which are in shortages right now) for proper productive use. 2. Significantly lessen the instances of Ransomware, since companies will have no legal mechanism to actually pay. Whether the coins continue to exist informally and are traded in some kind of primitive barter system i…

How would you enforce the ban in practical terms?

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#68

Post by throwkeep »

wickoff wrote: post #26
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #20

Bans are totally justified. They will achieve two major outcomes: 1. Tank the price, thus freeing up energy and advanced manufactured goods (which are in shortages right now) for proper productive use. 2. Significantly lessen the instances of Ransomware, since companies will have no legal mechanism to actually pay. Whether the coins continue to exist informally and are traded in some kind of primitive barter system i…

As long as we're banning things we should also ban all videogames, they are too addictive. There is nothing more precious than time and it can be spent much more productively. And alcohol for obvious reasons.

Both also use a lot of energy themselves.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#69

Post by koheripbal »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #56
koheripbal wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument used in the article is "citing fraud, criminal use, and financial instability"

Fiat currency of course never being used in those. Cryptocurrencies are an object of value due to scarcity alone. In that sense, it is no different from various rare materials. The difference with fiat is that governments mandate that it be legal tender, that al who do business must accept it but I am left to wonder, what if I were to open a store and accept bitcoins and euros, as I must operating in an area where eu…

> Fiat currency of course never being used in those.

The difference is being able to do it instantly across global distances, thereby circumventing regulators/border checks/banks/etc...

> Cryptocurrencies are an object of value due to scarcity alone.

This is sort of a silly assertion. Many things are scarce, yet have no value. If I create a new crypto coin, it would have zero value.

> it is no different from various rare materials.

Raw materials have uses outside their tradability.

> if I were to open a store and accept bitcoins

You would likely go bankrupt by the volatility. Most shops make <10% margin on all goods. You cannot accept payment in a coin that might be worth less than the value of the goods you need to restock for tomorrow.

Re: Netherlands must ban cryptocurrencies immediately: CPB head

#70

Post by throwaway6734 »

kuroguro wrote: post #6

There's plenty of valid criticisms against crypto, I feel like they've picked some of the weakest ones. > cryptocurrencies are used because people think they will one day replace traditional money Maybe a tiny minority, sounds like a strawman. > a contagious story in which people believe because other people believe in it Isn't fiat the same? Money only has value because people believe it has value / will have value…

These two aspects are some of my least favorite of the crypto community. Hyping up this future techno utopia without banks, while the real end goal is to increase the amount of real currency in their possession.

This doesn't describe the whole community, but a large portion of those on different crypto forums.

I have respect for those truly interested in the tech side of things and those looking to make money on a speculative asset, but people who mix those two drive me crazy because it seems so inauthentic

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