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New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

ifixit.com

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Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#11

Post by addicted »

joncrane wrote: post #5
elliekelly wrote: post #3

Not really related but ifixit really is fantastic. I’ve fixed so many things I had no business being able to fix on my own thanks to their guides and videos. I wish more people would turn to their site before throwing stuff away.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I do wonder about the idea that by making the power source impossible to remove, the phone can be a surveillance device even when the user thinks it's powered off. I wonder what the minds of HN think about this scenario. Is the move towards non-removable batteries perhaps related to this? I also wonder about the movement away from physical headphone jacks....I imagine bluetoo…

Let’s just engage this for a moment.

The first thing to ask if we think that the non removable batteries is related to surveillance is how a non removable battery would help surveillance. And it’s hard to see how it would. The vast majority of people would leave their removable batteries in the phone with it on anyways, since they don’t expect the surveillance. The next level of paranoid people would switch off the phone, in which case it wouldn’t matter if the battery was removable or not. The only crowd it would affect is the people who are paranoid enough that they would additionally also remove the battery. But if they are so careful, if they do have a phone with a non removable battery, then they have a simple alternate solution of simply locking up the phone in a lockbox and not taking it into the room you’re having the discussion (or taking it around with you if you’re worried about tracking).

Insisting on non removable batteries will give you an extremely minor benefit (people who are careful enough to want to remove their batteries for privacy, but not dedicated enough that given a non removable battery, they will still keep their phone around and won’t find an alternate solution).

So really, it doesn’t make sense at all.

Further, there’s a completely explainable, and frankly predictable, trajectory and goal that led to non removable batteries. The same goal that led to other changes such as the removing of the headphone jack, etc.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#12

Post by nine_k »

joncrane wrote: post #5
elliekelly wrote: post #3

Not really related but ifixit really is fantastic. I’ve fixed so many things I had no business being able to fix on my own thanks to their guides and videos. I wish more people would turn to their site before throwing stuff away.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I do wonder about the idea that by making the power source impossible to remove, the phone can be a surveillance device even when the user thinks it's powered off. I wonder what the minds of HN think about this scenario. Is the move towards non-removable batteries perhaps related to this? I also wonder about the movement away from physical headphone jacks....I imagine bluetoo…

If you want your cell phone to disappear from the airwaves, fold it in a piece of foil. Quite cheap and infeasible to overcome.

There are more realistic things like that, e.g. foil-protected credit card / access card wallets that prevent accidental contactless reading.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#13

Post by TravHatesMe »

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #4

If NY really wants to cut e-waste they should require removable batteries in cellphones and laptops. The move to non-removable batteries always seemed like a thinly veild money grab to me.

That is already the case for many power tools and appliances, the universal battery is usually more expensive than the tool.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#14

Post by whyIsItOk »

Why do people buy from these companies at all?

You know they are doing anti consumer practices, it's not like there is a Monopoly.

The only people I feel sympathetic for are iOS programmers who are forced into Apples Walled Prison. The rest of the population have created this problem.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#15

Post by kgwxd »

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #4

If NY really wants to cut e-waste they should require removable batteries in cellphones and laptops. The move to non-removable batteries always seemed like a thinly veild money grab to me.

Standardized would be nice too. I have at least 3 laptops that could be put to good use but the batteries are no longer available, 2 of them don't even work with the plug unless there's a battery in there for some god awful reason.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#16

Post by hellbannedguy »

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #4

If NY really wants to cut e-waste they should require removable batteries in cellphones and laptops. The move to non-removable batteries always seemed like a thinly veild money grab to me.

Politicians use e-waste as the reason use for these RTR bills, but my concern is simple.

I'm tired of my closet of broken devices. I don't like spending money on a new item when I was happy with the old model.

I am tired of not seeing all the trouble codes on my car when it breaks down.

I don't like spending money on electronics because a company won't let me fix their product, restricts information, or spare parts.

I came from a family that was too poor to buy new, and repair was just expected.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#17

Post by viraptor »

joncrane wrote: post #5
elliekelly wrote: post #3

Not really related but ifixit really is fantastic. I’ve fixed so many things I had no business being able to fix on my own thanks to their guides and videos. I wish more people would turn to their site before throwing stuff away.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I do wonder about the idea that by making the power source impossible to remove, the phone can be a surveillance device even when the user thinks it's powered off. I wonder what the minds of HN think about this scenario. Is the move towards non-removable batteries perhaps related to this? I also wonder about the movement away from physical headphone jacks....I imagine bluetoo…

That's unlikely because people would notice the devices working while off. Your power draw comes from two sources unless you run games and heavy apps: display and radios - and there's enough interest and measurement happening there that people would notice radios activating when they shouldn't.

There's also lots of interest in tracking device communication and I really expect someone to notice a randomly appearing device where there shouldn't be one.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#18

Post by hellbannedguy »

salawat wrote: post #8
joncrane wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I do wonder about the idea that by making the power source impossible to remove, the phone can be a surveillance device even when the user thinks it's powered off. I wonder what the minds of HN think about this scenario. Is the move towards non-removable batteries perhaps related to this? I also wonder about the movement away from physical headphone jacks....I imagine bluetoo…

Designwise, it's about waterproofing. You have to undersize parts for a watertight fit, which can result in undesirable characteristics when deformation or dropping of a device does happen. There's also an increasing tendency to use the outer shell of a device as a heat-sink/radiator. Adhesives enable this type of design but make it darn near impossible to maintain. I'm not going to say there isn't a mustache twirler…

I'd be ok with certain smart phones as the exemption, but not electronics in computers, home electronics, cars, tractors, etc.

And if it's truly about waterproofing, the companies better include water damage in their measly warranties.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#19

Post by tachyonbeam »

Guest42 wrote: post #6
only_as_i_fall wrote: post #4

If NY really wants to cut e-waste they should require removable batteries in cellphones and laptops. The move to non-removable batteries always seemed like a thinly veild money grab to me.

It makes everything disposable. I’ve seen a few 200 dollar health devices that fail quickly because they use cheap cr 2032 batteries that can’t be accessed. I miss the days of clip in batteries. I still have a 2013 laptop like that.

But this would force your laptop to be a whole 1.8cm thick! Unthinkable!

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#20

Post by taytus »

addicted wrote: post #11
joncrane wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I do wonder about the idea that by making the power source impossible to remove, the phone can be a surveillance device even when the user thinks it's powered off. I wonder what the minds of HN think about this scenario. Is the move towards non-removable batteries perhaps related to this? I also wonder about the movement away from physical headphone jacks....I imagine bluetoo…

Let’s just engage this for a moment. The first thing to ask if we think that the non removable batteries is related to surveillance is how a non removable battery would help surveillance. And it’s hard to see how it would. The vast majority of people would leave their removable batteries in the phone with it on anyways, since they don’t expect the surveillance. The next level of paranoid people would switch off the p…

>Let’s just engage this for a moment.

Please no.

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