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CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

netherlandsnewslive.com

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Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#151

Post by lottin »

Tepix wrote: post #38
Varqu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck banning internet access. Even if you ban crypto exchanges and money transfers to them, you cannot ban a single entity called Bitcoin Co, nor you can ban individuals from possessing it. You could potentially ban crypto miners from using the electrical energy, but that doesn't ban Bitcoin either. Any other ideas? :)

If you can't exchange your crypto currency against fiat it will become worthless.

Exactly right. Money that can't be spent is worthless and without exchanges that's exactly what cryptocurrencies would become.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#152

Post by celticninja »

sofixa wrote: post #132
celticninja wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap plastic disposable goods shipped from China on polluting cargo ships are a huge source of environmental damage. This is a direct result of consumerism. Where is the plan to deal with that? Bitcoin energy use is just a stick used to beat it, it is not a genuine concern. Why? Because most people who raise the issue are not green environmentalists, they are just bitcoin detractors. They don't highlight the issues…

Bad whataboutism is bad. > Cheap plastic disposable goods shipped from China on polluting cargo ships are a huge source of environmental damage New regulations are here about polluting ships. Single use plastics are (progressively) being banned - in the EU they're heavily taxed and will be absolutely banned since ~2022.

The use and release of CFCs was banned worldwide in 2000.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/ozone-layer-recov...

You think China will care? they will keep producing whatever makes money until they are caught, and not just Chinese companies, plenty in the developing world will circumvent legislation. And in the US they just don't bother with regulations to disregard. The Mississippi River carries an estimated 1.5 million metric tons of nitrogen pollution into the Gulf of Mexico each year, creating a “dead zone” in the Gulf each summer about the size of New Jersey.

This happens because there are no regulations to prevent the dumping of untreated waste into the Mississippi

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#153

Post by Vinnl »

mantenpanther wrote: post #37

"Central Planning Bureau (CPB)" - this is fine...

While it might sound like they're in charge of centrally drafting up communist-style policies, what it actually is is an institution that researches the effects of governments policies so the government has more data to plan their policies around.

This also means that this is in no way a sign that the Netherlands is anywhere near actually executing on this.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#154

Post by lottin »

skylabmelody wrote: post #106

I don't think it is technically possible to ban bitcoin, only centralized exchanges. If a country decides to ban exchanges, it could end up creating an untraceable black market since people might start exchanging crypto cash in the streets. Intelligence agencies would probably not be happy to lose such traceability capability. Drug dealers would be taking over this black market as it creates new incomes while simulta…

No one is going to buy and sell crypto on the streets, this is just nonsense.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#155

Post by emn13 »

celticninja wrote: post #149
emn13 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make a rough estimate of e.g. the CO2 emissions due to youtube and bitcoin, and thus get an idea of how the two relate. E.g. a quick google finds this: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22256-3 or this https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952 - so let's say bitcoin uses 150 TWh in 2021. Here's another one: https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/ By contrast, various sources list glob…

Look just be honest with yourself, you were in a prime position to buy bitcoin early (you are on HN so you likely heard about it before, let's say 2013). And you didn't, so your vested interest is in it failing. The environmental considerations just give you the flag to rally around. Your comment history has plenty of negative mentions of cryptocurrency/BTC but I cannot find anything related to environmental concern…

I don't protest the obvious. There's little discussion about the harms of global warming in general; this is a generally accepted fact, at least to most people I engage with. The same can not be said about cryptocurrencies and their harms; this is an argument worth having, precisely because people have not yet fully acknowledged the problems. Also: it's remarkable that you've so fully analyzed my personality in 5 minutes.

In any case, to reiterate my counterpoint (which you have not disputed, but given your ad hominem I assume you don't agree with): estimating at least an order of magnitude impact of bitcoin isn't that hard, so your suggestion that it's hopeless to compare somebody streaming gangnam style with a bitcoin transaction is unfounded. One can compare bitcoins environmental impacts with other environmental impacts.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#156

Post by IngvarLynn »

dandanua wrote: post #141
BreathHiker wrote: post #70

A bit unrelated, but this submission was top 3 on HN and suddenly seems removed from the /news page?

Because HN is a centralized platform and its owner has a big stack in crypto. So such "regulation" is logical. Ironically, isn't it?

The real irony is that each "crypto bad" thread on HN is clearly someone's paid shill. Because every time it reiterates the same extremely primitive misconceptions about crypto. Surely there are some real useful woke idiots on HN but I refuse believe that they constitute a voting majority.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#157

Post by oblio »

hnbad wrote: post #17
oblio wrote: post #3

I'm curious what's going to be left when the dust settles, probably in about 5 years. After all, since we're talking about the Netherlands, tulip bulbs are still around but most people don't care about them anymore.

I'm not sure if you're being facetious but flowers are a massive business and account for something like 10% of their agricultural exports. Saying "most people don't care about them anymore" makes it sound like it's a niche industry, which I think undersells it quite a bit.

Ummm... how many people care about tulip >?

Tulip bulbs are a niche topic, for sure.

A lot of people care about tulips, but for all they care tulips could be birthed live by other tulip plants, that's how much they care about tulip bulbs :-)

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#158

Post by oblio »

celticninja wrote: post #149
emn13 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make a rough estimate of e.g. the CO2 emissions due to youtube and bitcoin, and thus get an idea of how the two relate. E.g. a quick google finds this: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22256-3 or this https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952 - so let's say bitcoin uses 150 TWh in 2021. Here's another one: https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/ By contrast, various sources list glob…

Look just be honest with yourself, you were in a prime position to buy bitcoin early (you are on HN so you likely heard about it before, let's say 2013). And you didn't, so your vested interest is in it failing. The environmental considerations just give you the flag to rally around. Your comment history has plenty of negative mentions of cryptocurrency/BTC but I cannot find anything related to environmental concern…

> And you didn't, so your vested interest is in it failing.

Why does he have a "vested interest" in Bitcoin failing? Are you sure you know what "vested" means? :-)

Do you mean to say that he wants Bitcoin to fail because he's bitter?

We will see if Bitcoin is relevant in 5-10 years from now. My guess: it will be a niche thing with a very narrow set of uses.

If anything, you sound a bit like a Bitcoin supporter (maybe an investor?), so you sound more like someone who has a > interest in it succeeding.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#159

Post by RONROC »

me_me_me wrote: post #101

> 'A cryptocurrency crash is inevitable' Here I will write a second article for you for free Housing market crash is inevitable - The Netherlands must ban housing market and other housing initiatives.

Housing market crash is not inevitable. The market crashed in 08 because banks gave loans to unqualified people who could not afford their mortgage(s) otherwise.

The current housing “bubble” is driven by-and-large by private equity groups who see the real estate market (more so the single family home) as the safest place to park their money.

Thing is, these people can afford them.

Re: CPB director: The Netherlands must ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

#160

Post by skylabmelody »

lottin wrote: post #154
skylabmelody wrote: post #106

I don't think it is technically possible to ban bitcoin, only centralized exchanges. If a country decides to ban exchanges, it could end up creating an untraceable black market since people might start exchanging crypto cash in the streets. Intelligence agencies would probably not be happy to lose such traceability capability. Drug dealers would be taking over this black market as it creates new incomes while simulta…

No one is going to buy and sell crypto on the streets, this is just nonsense.

I can understand your fierce will to ban crypto for environmental impact reason.

However you cannot ban bitcoin, you just can't, that the whole purpose of its existence.

And black markets have always existed and always will.

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