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Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

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Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#31
On a purely systemic note, the first-past-the-post US voting system would benefit immensely from ranked voting, which in most forms makes it impossible to waste your vote if you choose a minor candidate.

As an Australian, I also think mandatory voting would fix other problems with the US electoral system, like perceived voter fraud (since most of the population votes, to cast a vote as someone else is harder and more easily detected), access to polling places (since it's a more obvious and immediate injustice to fine someone for not voting at a polling place with a three hour line than to merely deny them a vote), and the election of presidents who didn't have anything close to a majority of the population voting for them. Mandatory voting is much more controversial than ranked voting when I bring it up with Americans, though, and a less important fix.

Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#32

I have to agree. The US is a two party system, which is extremely limiting. One party badly wants to become an autocracy while the other wants to erode compromise in favor of becoming a single party super majority. I wish anti-trust actions apply to political parties and break them both apart.

> I have to agree. The US is a two party system, ...

I agree with the first part of your analysis, but the rest seems a bit off.

Firstly, the fact that the US is effectively a two party system comes from the fact that your electoral systems is based on district representatives. This winner-takes-all approach will by nature lead to a two-party system, same as it has in the UK.

Secondly, you do not have to assume dark motives ("... badly wants to become an autocracy...") to arrive at extremism within the parties: This is a natural result of gerrymandering and segregation, where safe districts leads to candidates that pander to there single-party base only.

Compare this with most of continental Europe, where you have proportional representation. Here multi-party systems prevail, and as you indicate in the start of your analysis, this does indeed appear to lead to a "better" democracy in the sense that it can handle multi-dimensional shifts in voter attitude much better than entrenched two-party systems.

Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#33
post #9

I felt this way for a long time, so I put my money where my mouth is and I left. I'm not sure if it will take 10, 20, or 30 years (sometimes it feels like even less!) but it's so hard to look at the American superstructure and see a system that is capable of self-repair or dealing with new problems.

What other places are better to live in? My country is starting to look like a fascist authoritative regime run by a megalomaniac.

I chose the Netherlands for a variety of reasons, but I guess ultimately it is a question of what values you think are best suited to create a functional society. For me, a life that was less centered on car travel and had a political system that was more robust to new problems is what I wanted the most.

Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#34
post #19

I have to agree. The US is a two party system, which is extremely limiting. One party badly wants to become an autocracy while the other wants to erode compromise in favor of becoming a single party super majority. I wish anti-trust actions apply to political parties and break them both apart.

First Past the Post voting system will always lead to 2 party rule... One of the ways to change that is to adopt a Ranked Choice voting system. For some reason Americans seem to be very opposed to this idea.

I'm a fan of ranked choice voting, but I feel the need to add that the de facto 2 party system in the US functions similarly to political bloc majority government formation in European democracies. The difference is the US names the coalitions rather than the individual parties themselves. If you look at either US party you see very different voting trends on platform between different regions, you see sub parties (like justice Democrats or tea party) and a constant shift in platform to keep these groups appeased, very similar in effect to the process of compromise by which majority governments are formed in European democracies. IMO this is a symptom of majority rule and will occur regardless whether you name the parties or name the coalitions. What you wind up with is 2 blocs made up of diverse interests with enough overlapping or converging interest forming through negotiation.

Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#35
post #9

I felt this way for a long time, so I put my money where my mouth is and I left. I'm not sure if it will take 10, 20, or 30 years (sometimes it feels like even less!) but it's so hard to look at the American superstructure and see a system that is capable of self-repair or dealing with new problems.

What other places are better to live in? My country is starting to look like a fascist authoritative regime run by a megalomaniac.

I wanted to reply "Aha! You must be from ..." — and stopped, realizing how wide the choice is :(

Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#36
post #14

As long as the US keeps treating politics like it's a sport to be won by your team, and remain willfully ignorant of how big corporations actively run their country, it's not going to improve.

I’d say the problem is more in the two party system. If you think about all the opinions one can have about how a country should be run, it’s plain weird to only have two choices.

On the other hand, two party system proved to be stable in long term, while ensuring rotation in government.

Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#37

I have to agree. The US is a two party system, which is extremely limiting. One party badly wants to become an autocracy while the other wants to erode compromise in favor of becoming a single party super majority. I wish anti-trust actions apply to political parties and break them both apart.

> I wish anti-trust actions apply to political parties and break them both apart. There are hundreds of political parties in the US; the stable equilibrium is only two competitive factions because of the electoral system. Breaking up currently dominant parties without addressing the electoral system won’t change anything meaningful. You need to fix the electoral system. Specifically, the solid evidence from across mo…

I would so love to eliminate winner takes all from states as part of the electoral college. California is slightly purple and Texas extremely so. That should be represented in their massive vote counts.

Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#38
post #19

I have to agree. The US is a two party system, which is extremely limiting. One party badly wants to become an autocracy while the other wants to erode compromise in favor of becoming a single party super majority. I wish anti-trust actions apply to political parties and break them both apart.

First Past the Post voting system will always lead to 2 party rule... One of the ways to change that is to adopt a Ranked Choice voting system. For some reason Americans seem to be very opposed to this idea.

If you're really wedded to one of those parties (which Americans seem to be - (here in the UK too, sigh)), then that makes perfect sense.

At least this way you have a 50% chance of getting your guys in power. And if you don't it's just a waiting game til you do again.

Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#39
post #31

On a purely systemic note, the first-past-the-post US voting system would benefit immensely from ranked voting, which in most forms makes it impossible to waste your vote if you choose a minor candidate. As an Australian, I also think mandatory voting would fix other problems with the US electoral system, like perceived voter fraud (since most of the population votes, to cast a vote as someone else is harder and more…

I honestly think almost any other form is better than FPTP. The Parliamentary system, the instant runoff, ranked voted, etc...

I support anything that we can most easily convince the people to accept the change.

Re: Allies Believe U.S. 'No Longer a Good Model of Democracy,' Poll Shows

#40
post #20
post #4

That is good, as we are a model of good Federalist Republic. The continued attempts to make the U.S. a national democracy is an ongoing problem, we need and should revert many of the "democratic" elements that have been put into our system, such as repealing the 17th amendment, we should more limit the power and scope of the federal government reversing bad Supreme Court Rulings such as Wickard v filburn which expend…

I have no idea what this means, but I'm also completely illiterate in US political theory. Is your point that republic implies strong federalism and democratic does not?

I'm not who you're replying to but strictly speaking "republic" simply means a government based on rules, technically every democracy is a type of republic. But the US system is a republic very different from a democracy, with democratic institutions but also rules and institutions that cannot be changed democratically and many non democratic processes.

To understand how the US government works it is very similar to the UK under Oliver Cromwell prior to the attempted creation of the third house, it was basically modeled after that period of UK government.

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