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Privacy Analysis of FLoC

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Re: Privacy Analysis of FLoC

#111

Post by ksec »

leipert wrote: post #32
jedberg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like personalized ads. If I have to suffer with ads to support the websites I like, I'd rather have them personalized. Instagram is really good at this -- I probably click on at least 1/4 of the ads I get, and have definitely made purchases based on Instagram ads. So as a user, the benefit would be better ads. Honestly I'll probably leave FLOC on if given the option (although I use Firefox and Safari, and as far as…

Interesting. I just dislike ads altogether. Especially Instagram feels very manipulative. So far nothing we have bought based on Instagram or Facebook ads has been useful in the long run. Personally I prefer to either have a need for something (I want to solve problem X) and do some research based off of that. Or I share an experience with a friend where they make a recommendation. Funniest Facebook ad by the way: I…

I like Good Ads. Non Invasive, Non Repetitive, Good / High Quality / Personalised ad. And preferably not slowing down the site.

Ads are also like news in a sense. And News is the most addictive form of media. You find new product, services, or announcement from Ads.

The problem is the quality of Digital / Online ads are generally quite low.

Re: Privacy Analysis of FLoC

#113

Post by lgats »

jedimastert wrote: post #90
tomrod wrote: post #18

FLoC: micro market segmentation. Profiles versus data. It requires on 33 bits to uniquely identify an individual. [0]. I would be interested to learn whether FLoC employed k-anonymity measures, and their report on it. If I am retired, female, live in the 830* zip3, and own a sedan, it is probably hard to identify me. Add that I am Korean and am searching for thyroid cancer treatments on Tuesday at 8:43AM local, then…

> searching for thyroid cancer treatments Subtle note, this would probably fall under the "sensitive topics" category discussed and not be tracked, but insert niche hobby here and your point still stands

Though the categories are defined [1], how does the browser determine a site falls into one of these categories?

[1] https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/143465?hl=en

Re: Privacy Analysis of FLoC

#114

Post by ksec »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #26
jedberg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like personalized ads. If I have to suffer with ads to support the websites I like, I'd rather have them personalized. Instagram is really good at this -- I probably click on at least 1/4 of the ads I get, and have definitely made purchases based on Instagram ads. So as a user, the benefit would be better ads. Honestly I'll probably leave FLOC on if given the option (although I use Firefox and Safari, and as far as…

HN is the only place on the internet I've seen people expound their love for personalized advertising.

I mean there are only a few on HN who dare to post this contrarian view. 99.98% of people on HN still hate Ads. To the point they want to cancel people working on Google Ads or in Adtech industry.

99% of nerds hate ads, but 99% of consumer aren't nerds.

Re: Privacy Analysis of FLoC

#115

Post by imiric »

jefftk wrote: post #65
driverdan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I have to suffer with ads to support the websites I like You don't. Use an adblocker and be done with them.

And then how is the website jedberg likes supported?

That's the website's problem, not jedberg's.

If they can come up with an unintrusive and frictionless way for me to support them financially, and I think their service is worth supporting, I'll do so.

The problem is that the advertising business model is forced upon users. It's like the sleazy salesman holding the service hostage, and the only way to use it is to agree to be exploited and manipulated.

To hell with that nonsense. Either come up with a business model that respects your users, or close up shop as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Privacy Analysis of FLoC

#116

Post by pabs3 »

wearywanderer wrote: post #53
freebuju wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not happening. All those anti-tracking measures break websites more often than not.

That is flat wrong in my experience. I browse with javascript and CSS both disabled by default, using uMatrix. Only a minority of sites I browse require me to whitelist JS or CSS; maybe 1-in-10. Most newspapers and blogs do not require JS or CSS.

I note that uMatrix is archived, do you have a plan for when it stops working? (I'm also a user)

Re: Privacy Analysis of FLoC

#117

Post by imiric »

google234123 wrote: post #71
olliej wrote: post #69

FLoC is inherently anti-user, it serves literally no purpose other than to support tracking, while breaking all current anti-tracking tech by mandating its user across domains (a nice solid break of Same Origin policy). That it came from google is hardly surprising, as they are hell bent on stealing every bit of information they can from everyone, whether or not that person has a relationship with them, let alone con…

Removing effective ads from the internet would be even more anti user. I dont think most people will be happy when everything is paywalled effectively.

That's a false dichotomy. Paywalls aren't the only alternative to ads. If companies can come up with user-respecting business models, I'd be happy to support them. If their business is worth supporting.

Re: Privacy Analysis of FLoC

#118

Post by DistressedDrone »

lawl wrote: post #100
jedberg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like personalized ads. If I have to suffer with ads to support the websites I like, I'd rather have them personalized. Instagram is really good at this -- I probably click on at least 1/4 of the ads I get, and have definitely made purchases based on Instagram ads. So as a user, the benefit would be better ads. Honestly I'll probably leave FLOC on if given the option (although I use Firefox and Safari, and as far as…

I don't mind ads if they're not intrusive or even useful. HN has ads, in the form of job listings for YC companies. They don't bother me in the slightest, and if i lived in the US they might even provide value to me. The hundreds or thousands of ads i'd see if i'd surf without an adblocker do not. Maybe you do have a product i'm interested in and don't know about. But there's not hundreds of things i'm going to buy e…

I tend to agree, although I hate ads on principle.

But there are a lot of things I hate and don't have to think about. I don't go around protesting the war because in my country that's not something I have to care about, for example.

But advertisers made me have to care. If I didn't have adblock, I'd be running JS from some unverified third party on every other site. Couldn't they restrict it to pictures? Of course not.

So now I have to care, and I'm not going to cooperate with advertisers, who - before adblock got so mainstream - were content to serve us literal viruses as long as someone paid them.

Re: Privacy Analysis of FLoC

#119

Post by HWR_14 »

jedberg wrote: post #23
justinplouffe wrote: post #12

What bothers me the most about FLOC is that there is no reason or advantage for me as a user to run it unless I'm forced to. Cookies, even if they get hijacked for tracking, are genuinely useful to persist state and having them on results in a better experience. Even in the case of something more invasive like DRM/EME, I might want to turn it on in exchange to be able to watch some new show on a streaming service. Tu…

I like personalized ads. If I have to suffer with ads to support the websites I like, I'd rather have them personalized. Instagram is really good at this -- I probably click on at least 1/4 of the ads I get, and have definitely made purchases based on Instagram ads. So as a user, the benefit would be better ads. Honestly I'll probably leave FLOC on if given the option (although I use Firefox and Safari, and as far as…

> I probably click on at least 1/4 of the ads I get, and have definitely made purchases based on Instagram ads.

In an anonymized (or not) way, can you tell me something you found via an Instagram ad that you were not aware existed and then purchased?

Re: Privacy Analysis of FLoC

#120

Post by HWR_14 »

lawl wrote: post #100
jedberg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like personalized ads. If I have to suffer with ads to support the websites I like, I'd rather have them personalized. Instagram is really good at this -- I probably click on at least 1/4 of the ads I get, and have definitely made purchases based on Instagram ads. So as a user, the benefit would be better ads. Honestly I'll probably leave FLOC on if given the option (although I use Firefox and Safari, and as far as…

I don't mind ads if they're not intrusive or even useful. HN has ads, in the form of job listings for YC companies. They don't bother me in the slightest, and if i lived in the US they might even provide value to me. The hundreds or thousands of ads i'd see if i'd surf without an adblocker do not. Maybe you do have a product i'm interested in and don't know about. But there's not hundreds of things i'm going to buy e…

HN has ads, but don't I have to go searching for them to find them? I think it's Stack Overflow's ad model too. We'll curate a group of readers that are appealing to people seeking jobs, put up a "jobs" tab, and charge companies to list openings.
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