Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#41

Post by moralestapia » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

lalaland1125 wrote: post #7

moralestapia wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the anger management sessions didn't do much. Also, some of the things he states are wrong (or unverified) as well. I wish people had the maturity of being able to discuss sensitive topics without having it degenerate into a visceral fight. For instance, I'm not being rude or anything, I'm just sharing my knowledge from 10+ or so years doing science, not pushing an agenda and presenting arguments in a civilized…

What did he say that you would consider to be wrong or unverified?

Well, there's a lot of evidence for mRNA transfer between species in other kingdoms; read on about reverse transcriptase[1] that is literally how some viruses spread when they enter the human body. Whether that mechanism still goes on when some of the components are missing, well, we presume it won't happen but there's not enough and definite evidence for that.

And for those who love appealing to authority, I do have bachelor and master degrees in bioscience, unlike Linus and most of the readers here, so :^)

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_transcriptase

Edit, happens all the time, in many different contexts:

[2]: https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/23/4/735/620265

[3]: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/193963607018768...

[4]: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00294-018-0844-6

[5]: https://www.spandidos-publications.com/ijo/19/5/1015 I could go on and on, but you get the idea, if there's something you learn (or should learn) in biology is that the exception is the rule.

Edit 2: Lol, would love to read you comments on this: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/21/e2105968118

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#42

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #34

mRNA doesn't change your genetic sequence in any way. It is the exact same intermediate - and temporary - kind of material that your cells generate internally all the time as part of your normal cell processes The m in mRNA stands for messenger. I'm failing to find anything I consider to be a succinct explanation in layman's terms (other than the one in the piece under discussion: all that the mRNA vaccines do is to…

Nobody tell these guys about the adenovirus platform, which actually does enter the nucleus [1]. (For the avoidance of doubt, it doesn’t tamper with your DNA.)

[1] https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/9160...

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#43

Post by refulgentis » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:35 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #34

mRNA doesn't change your genetic sequence in any way. It is the exact same intermediate - and temporary - kind of material that your cells generate internally all the time as part of your normal cell processes The m in mRNA stands for messenger. I'm failing to find anything I consider to be a succinct explanation in layman's terms (other than the one in the piece under discussion: all that the mRNA vaccines do is to…

The mRNA recipe is for a distinctive spike protein on mainstream COVID, your cells unwittingly produce this spike protein, then your immune system says "what's this garbage?" and attacks it.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#44

Post by dqpb » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #34

mRNA doesn't change your genetic sequence in any way. It is the exact same intermediate - and temporary - kind of material that your cells generate internally all the time as part of your normal cell processes The m in mRNA stands for messenger. I'm failing to find anything I consider to be a succinct explanation in layman's terms (other than the one in the piece under discussion: all that the mRNA vaccines do is to…

> But from what I gather, mRNA vaccines basically inject your body with a coded recipe for how to manufacture the immune stuff

That’s not correct. The coded recipe is for covid’s spike proteins. Your body manufactures a bunch of those spike proteins and then has an immune response to them.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#45

Post by seattle_spring » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

dvt wrote: post #26

weatherlight wrote: post #5

I cant +1 this enough. Thank you, Linus for standing up to the wealth of misinformation out there and holding his ground.

> Thank you, Linus for standing up to the wealth of misinformation out there and holding his ground. Being a pompous ass might feel good, especially when you think you are (or you actually are) smarter than your opponent, but it won't sway anyone. In fact, it does quite the opposite. If you're seriously trying to convince someone they're wrong, you need to be kind, be patient, and have a calm, productive discussion -…

Maybe so, but I've observed that attitude to be far more prevalent on the anti-vax side than the pro-science side. You don't really see people who advocate for the vaccine calling anyone who disagrees "sheeple," "NPCs," etc., nor do they whine about downvotes or "being silenced," or misattribute moderation to first amendment violations.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#46

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

macksd wrote: post #31

tptacek wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect a nurse in a COVID ward and an anesthesiologist to have strong answers on this question? Vaccinology is laboratory science. My son works in a vaccinology lab; as far as I know, nobody there has been to med school.

I just happen to know a lot of anesthesiologists and they went to all of med school - I didn't. They were easy to ask and know more than me. The first nurse, again, more medical education than me to begin with, was very interested in the science beyond his work and was obviously briefed on the situation at work as it changed. I just figured it might have been more common knowledge than it turned out to be. My point i…

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#47

Post by signal11 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:37 PM UTC

macksd wrote: post #15

Absolutely agree with everything Linus says here. But I'm almost equally concerned that there's an awful lot of people on the pro-science bandwagon who don't actually support science, but simply don't tolerate dissent or questioning, and that's unscientific and potentially harmful too. I scanned most of the Pfizer trial and was wondering why we expected the immunity after the vaccine to last longer than natural immun…

As far as I’m aware, there is no direct experimental evidence over a long duration as the virus is novel and the vaccines new, but for now we have this: Antibody Persistence through 6 Months after the Second Dose of mRNA-1273 Vaccine for Covid-19[1]

And I think it’s okay to ask questions, that’s how science progresses. I suspect a lot of people on social media are just super wary of vaccine trolls and sea-lioning[2], so unfortunately good-faith questions suffer.

[1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2103916

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#48

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #34

mRNA doesn't change your genetic sequence in any way. It is the exact same intermediate - and temporary - kind of material that your cells generate internally all the time as part of your normal cell processes The m in mRNA stands for messenger. I'm failing to find anything I consider to be a succinct explanation in layman's terms (other than the one in the piece under discussion: all that the mRNA vaccines do is to…

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#49

Post by piinbinary » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

The way I like to think about it (not sure how accurate this is) is that mRNA is like a letter sent by your DNA. mRNA vaccines forge your DNA's handwriting and write a letter that looks like it came from your DNA, but didn't.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#50

Post by IvyMike » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

macksd wrote: post #15

Absolutely agree with everything Linus says here. But I'm almost equally concerned that there's an awful lot of people on the pro-science bandwagon who don't actually support science, but simply don't tolerate dissent or questioning, and that's unscientific and potentially harmful too. I scanned most of the Pfizer trial and was wondering why we expected the immunity after the vaccine to last longer than natural immun…

There are a LOT of anti-vaxxers who disingenuously couch their advocacy as "I'm only asking questions". It's no surprise when you've seen a 10:1 ratio of bad actors to good (or worse), one might get a little exasperated.

In any case, I've recently been reading Lauren Sompayrac's "How the Immune System Works", and it's a technical overview of the immune system. It's not going to make you into a full blown immunologist, but it will give you the answers to most the questions you ask above, and a framework and vocabulary to begin to understand deeper academic immunology works.

P.S. The immune system is FUCKING AWESOME. There's rarely a page where my mind is not blown.

Edit: I misspelled "Sompayrac"; it is now correct.