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Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

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Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#31

Post by macksd »

tptacek wrote: post #20
macksd wrote: post #15

Absolutely agree with everything Linus says here. But I'm almost equally concerned that there's an awful lot of people on the pro-science bandwagon who don't actually support science, but simply don't tolerate dissent or questioning, and that's unscientific and potentially harmful too. I scanned most of the Pfizer trial and was wondering why we expected the immunity after the vaccine to last longer than natural immun…

Why would you expect a nurse in a COVID ward and an anesthesiologist to have strong answers on this question? Vaccinology is laboratory science. My son works in a vaccinology lab; as far as I know, nobody there has been to med school.

I just happen to know a lot of anesthesiologists and they went to all of med school - I didn't. They were easy to ask and know more than me. The first nurse, again, more medical education than me to begin with, was very interested in the science beyond his work and was obviously briefed on the situation at work as it changed. I just figured it might have been more common knowledge than it turned out to be.

My point is more that these people have far more medical education than the average person I interact with on social media, and didn't look down on my question but also wanted to know. People who knew less than them and knew even less than me were mad that I would dare even ask.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#32

Post by swinnipeg »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #2

> And if you insist on believing in the crazy conspiracy theories, at least SHUT THE HELL UP about it on Linux kernel discussion lists. I see Linus still hasn't changed much.

And this...

>But dammit, regardless of where you have gotten your mis-information from, any Linux kernel discussion list isn't going to have your idiotic drivel pass uncontested from me.

He hasn't lost his fastball!

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#34

Post by DoreenMichele »

mRNA doesn't change your genetic sequence in any way. It is the exact same intermediate - and temporary - kind of material that your cells generate internally all the time as part of your normal cell processes

The m in mRNA stands for messenger.

I'm failing to find anything I consider to be a succinct explanation in layman's terms (other than the one in the piece under discussion: all that the mRNA vaccines do is to add a dose their own specialized sequence that then makes your normal cell machinery generate that spike protein so that your body learns how to recognize it.).

But from what I gather, mRNA vaccines basically inject your body with a coded recipe for how to manufacture the immune stuff it normally manufactures in reaction to an infection, only without having to first be infected. Not even with a dead version of the virus, as some vaccines use for trying to prompt the body to figure this out more safely than by actually catching the infection.

A few sources I looked at, without feeling satisfied with their explanations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger_RNA

https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/messenger-rna

https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/translation-dna-to...

Edit: Thank you to everyone supplying a more accurate explanation in layman's terms. Much appreciated.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#35

Post by refulgentis »

macksd wrote: post #15

Absolutely agree with everything Linus says here. But I'm almost equally concerned that there's an awful lot of people on the pro-science bandwagon who don't actually support science, but simply don't tolerate dissent or questioning, and that's unscientific and potentially harmful too. I scanned most of the Pfizer trial and was wondering why we expected the immunity after the vaccine to last longer than natural immun…

TL;DR you heard claims of vaccines' prophylactic effect lasting for years, from somewhere unnamed, and you correctly heard from people in the medical field that no one has any idea of how long it'll last, we're barely 6 months into have a sizable cohort to analyze this with in the US, which itself is far ahead of most of the world. Another massive factor is we have no idea how fast the virus will mutate.

Edit: oh, the irony of going -3 for this comment on this article...what's wrong people, lay it on me

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#37

Post by ceejayoz »

Quillbert182 wrote: post #28
tptacek wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect a nurse in a COVID ward and an anesthesiologist to have strong answers on this question? Vaccinology is laboratory science. My son works in a vaccinology lab; as far as I know, nobody there has been to med school.

They may not have the answers, but you would think they would have a better idea of where to look than someone with no medical experience at all.

People think that, but there’s basically nothing in nursing or anesthesia training that’s gonna deal much with the nitty gritty details of vaccines and how they’re developed and tested.

It’s like asking a car mechanic about steel production. Entirely out of their wheelhouse, even if they deal with the steel daily.

(Both could comfortably tell you masks don’t cause hypoxia or pneumonia, though.)

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#38

Post by macksd »

bad_alloc wrote: post #29
macksd wrote: post #15

Absolutely agree with everything Linus says here. But I'm almost equally concerned that there's an awful lot of people on the pro-science bandwagon who don't actually support science, but simply don't tolerate dissent or questioning, and that's unscientific and potentially harmful too. I scanned most of the Pfizer trial and was wondering why we expected the immunity after the vaccine to last longer than natural immun…

> But I'm almost equally concerned that there's an awful lot of people on the pro-science bandwagon who don't actually support science, but simply don't tolerate dissent or questioning, and that's unscientific and potentially harmful too. Dissent to the dominant opinion in any scientific field is always tricky, but that is a self-defense mechanism. Over time opposing viewpoints are integrated into the body of knowled…

True. Perhaps dissent is a poor choice of words here, because I was never against the vaccine - I would default to supporting a vaccine. More - I didn't get why everyone was so optimistic about them and asked to know more. Even that was blasphemy to a few people - but ironically not to the people who are medical experts in SOME way.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#39

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

miked85 wrote: post #12

I am not sure why one would care about what Linus, or the person he is talking to says, Neither is an expert in the field.

Asshole or not, Linus is a role model for many. I bet a throwaway comment he makes about $EDITOR would change the preferred value for tens of people.

How many people who have never touched kernel source vaguely follow his antics?

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#40

Post by panny »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #7
moralestapia wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the anger management sessions didn't do much. Also, some of the things he states are wrong (or unverified) as well. I wish people had the maturity of being able to discuss sensitive topics without having it degenerate into a visceral fight. For instance, I'm not being rude or anything, I'm just sharing my knowledge from 10+ or so years doing science, not pushing an agenda and presenting arguments in a civilized…

What did he say that you would consider to be wrong or unverified?

I'll bite. He says it's crazy conspiracy theories. I have family hospitalized with blood clots after receiving the vax. She's out now, but that hospitalization will lead to a personal bankruptcy. It's not crazy conspiracy theory when your own family starts seeing negative effects. After watching what happened to her, nobody else in my family has any desire to get vaxxed. Nobody in my family is "anti-vax" as we've all gotten vaxed at birth, have voluntarily gotten flu vaccines in the past, etc. It's anti-this-vax, because it is not fully tested, and has caused real harm to people.

What happened to "First, do no harm"?

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