Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…
Here here. I was looking just yesterday to see if a John Deere Gator (or equivalent) is street legal. The answer is yes, with a few parts.
Luckily the only dynamic part of most of these ECU's are their diagnostics and logging mechanisms, nowhere near "huge swaths of functionality". Every other bit of flash is written once at the factory and is never touched again. Now that we are seeing widespread adoption of OTA, it'll increase the amount of writes to program flash maybe 100 times over the life of the vehicle, but still within reasonable bounds. The is…
Many cars use eMMC to back the infotainment system. Recent non-tesla rentals I've driven have definitely had functionality that could only be accessed through the touch-screen. e.g. a Chrysler my mom rented a couple weeks ago had just temperature and fan control on knobs; everything else for climate was touch-screen only. What happens when the eMMC gives up the ghost in this car? I don't know, but I suspect you won't…
Good point, you are totally right. I don't drive a car which uses the infotainment system for mission-critical functionality. I've actually run it without the infotainment system in the car at all. Tesla's would effectively be bricked without the head unit functioning.
Ford and the rest of the reputable OEMs know a thing or two about flash degradation though. It was actually a huge sticking point in one of my infotainment projects with them. So I don't expect all the OEMs to make the same bone-headed mistakes Tesla has
Frightening. My friend had a similar incident (but he drives like a complete nutcase). Is there no „code of conduct“ what automotive software must not do in any case?
Probably these companies ignore any existing legislation to have more disruption powers. Lawsuits from fatal accidents are just the cost of doing business.
I would assume incompetence before malice and living in some kind of idealized bubble compared to field testing and dog fooding their own product in a very large variety of circumstances.
One car executive that I've known said this: "The very best test drivers are our end users, in the first week after release we learn more about a car than we do in the months of field testing prior.". I am not going to name the individual but it makes good sense and I have seen the same with all software products released to the general public.
Nothing worse than automotive software. Buggy, slow, terrible user interfaces, outright dangerous and in many ways much worse than the systems they replace or augment. The automotive industry has a long long way to come - assuming it will happen at all - before they can be said to be responsible software vendors. Case in point: my - former - C class Mercedes that made two pretty good attempts to kill me by slamming o…
Holyshit, thanks for the heads up. If I rent a new car, first thing I’m doing is disabling all this crap. As long as pre-2010 cars are available, I’m gonna continue driving them.
It couldn't be disabled either without breaking out the wire snips and selectively disabling stuff and hoping that that would not have further averse affects. That car had a radar unit behind the front license plate and a camera mounted in the windshield. No idea which of the two was responsible for the false triggers.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who wants a dumb car. Unfortunately, the idea of electric cars has become bound up with the notion of software-driven cars. I want an electric car with analog controls, no touch screens or over-the-air updates, and minimal software. A car that I feel like I own, rather than one I'm getting a click-through license to use.
You know the dark pattern of presenting a license agreement over and over until it's accepted? I predict one day someone will make the argument in court that they always declined the EULA (perhaps the one in their car) hundreds of times, but one day accidentally brushed "accept" with their finger, and that doesn't constitute legal acceptance, especially since they've demonstrated an effort to decline the EULA, but be…
Uhhh, you don't click through a EULA in the car. You do it when you sign the purchase agreement. Do you not read those things?
Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…
I guess Renault Zoe or Wuling Hong Guang Mini EV mostly ticks your boxes
Serious question - what alternatives are left for those of us who want a dumb car? I've spent the last three months finding out I can't get solar panels installed without a high-fidelity power-monitor tap connected to the provider's cloud, logging every appliance I use and what it's doing. Same deal with cars - they are on the internet and they generate evidence used to convict, and geofencing is coming. Other than s…
I just bought a 2018 Subaru Crosstrek that's surprisingly dumb. All mechanical controls and a basic infotainment system that isn't required for the car to operate. AFAIK it doesn't have any cloud capabilities and isn't connected to the internet. I imagine the latest models are the same since they look similar inside.
Many cars use eMMC to back the infotainment system. Recent non-tesla rentals I've driven have definitely had functionality that could only be accessed through the touch-screen. e.g. a Chrysler my mom rented a couple weeks ago had just temperature and fan control on knobs; everything else for climate was touch-screen only. What happens when the eMMC gives up the ghost in this car? I don't know, but I suspect you won't…
Good point, you are totally right. I don't drive a car which uses the infotainment system for mission-critical functionality. I've actually run it without the infotainment system in the car at all. Tesla's would effectively be bricked without the head unit functioning. Ford and the rest of the reputable OEMs know a thing or two about flash degradation though. It was actually a huge sticking point in one of my infotai…
If you are allowed to share, what is the typical OEM specified lifetime for the infotainment flash part? I guessed 10 years in my original comment, but that was a gut instinct and completely uninformed.
Won't t 3D-printing metal appliances be more and more widely feasible in coming years? And, at least here in the EU, right-to-repair [1] labeling gives consumers the ability to more efficiently vote with their wallets. Its also happening in the US [2] [1] https://repair.eu/ [2] https://fr.ifixit.com/News/8748/right-to-repair
Liquid steel requires enormously high temperature and magnesium/aluminium require an argon atmosphere. Titanium requires both. So unless you're going to make everything out of zinc (assuming we don't run out of zinc!), this may not be the cheap fix you're hoping for -- and zinc isn't very strong.
What do you think about the possibility of smaller/cheaper/easier 5-axis mills?
I think you are missing the point. The problem is what do those features mean? Is the stereo just an AM/FM radio? Does it have a CD player? A CD changer (how many people even buy CDs anymore)? Does it get satellite radio? Does it have AUX input? Does it have Bluetooth? Is there an interface to communicate to the the Bluetooth device (people driving around controlling their stereo from their phone is more dangerous th…
No I think you're missing the point. I never said there was universal definition. I just said that very few people complaining about smart cars are against features like "mechanical door lock, manual windows, no car stereo, no power steering, no thermostat, no cruise control"...
I can't speak directly for OP, but I think the specific part you are quoting was being facetious. No one would consider power windows as a "smart" feature. But where is the line between a smart power window and a dumb power window? For example, are they just simple windows with an up and down button? Are there options for disabling the window buttons in the back seat for child safety? Are there options for the back seat windows to only go down halfway? Will the windows go down completely with one touch or do you have to hold the button? Can you set the windows to close when you turn off the ignition or lock the car? You might not care about any of those features, but some people will. That is what leads to bloat.