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What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#631

Post by dntrkv »

ericmay wrote: post #579

I'll never understand why we're hell-bent on making sure people are driving around in cars. Instead of solving the problem of commuting by not having cars and by building better, we're just making commuting better and more optimized. It's so stupid. We should be making it so that you don't have to commute, not that you can do more work while you commute or w/e.

Autonomous driving is an extremely difficult problem, but it pales in comparison to the challenge of forcing a cultural shift away from driving and reimagining/rebuilding so many cities.

Most Americans won't even entertain the thought of giving up their car even if alternative modes of transport make more sense.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#632

Post by futevolei »

malozite wrote: post #479
futevolei wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people don’t like to drive, simple as that. Some people would like to fly but can’t afford the ticket so they have to make a long miserable drive. Or maybe it’s one of those destinations that is a 5 hour drive where a car clearly makes more sense than a 45 minute flight (that ends up taking 5-6 hours door to door). Im sure you can appreciate how pay by hour would be a huge upgrade in this case.

The situation with the 5 hour drive which would be a 45 minute flight + 4-5 hours of flight overhead is completely orthogonal to whether or not the car is self-driving. If you like to drive, you are fine with or without autonomous cars. If you don't like to sit in a car for 5 hours, you are SOL in both cases. Only if you hate driving, but do enjoy sitting in a car not driving do self-driving cars add value.

It’s not orthogonal. Self driving 6 hours makes the drive a net positive. It goes from unpleasant/brutal to a net positive where you can sit in the car and do other stuff.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#633

Post by CharlesW »

rdsnsca wrote: post #599
smarx007 wrote: post #267

I think it is a great idea for bringing autonomous cars to the market. Think about it: take a VW that costs $25k today. Now, fast forward 10 years and you can buy roughly the same car for roughly the same price but with autonomy-as-a-service. First and foremost, it's still a car worth $25k. And if it's your first autonomous car, you will naturally be sceptical if it's worth it. Getting you to pay $10k extra may be a…

ROFLMAO you think the car will be roughly the same price.

True, it might be cheaper if they go with the razor/blade model.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#634

Post by tails4e »

wil421 wrote: post #382
tails4e wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you leave the self driving aside, the model s is an amazing car. Compared with a high end bmw/merc/audi you get more features as standard - though I do admit the finish/build quality on those cars is superior. I have a 4 year old MS, and genuinely like it and love the acceleration/nimbleness and have experienced very few issues. I'd consider tesla again for my next car, but FSD would not be a factor either way.

The interior of any Tesla is light years behind a BMW/Merc/Audi. My wife recently got an x7 and even my Grand Cherokee seems nicer in some ways than a Tesla. For the price of a Tesla you should be getting so much more inside especially at the S/X price level. Compared to the Mercs and BMWs I looked at a Tesla was more comparable to a nice Honda.

What's particularly lacking in the MS interior? Very comfortable, leather all round, heated and adjustable seats. Best infotainment/nav system hands down, glass panoramic roof, and a very clean look.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#635

Post by IgorPartola »

Dah00n wrote: post #424
IgorPartola wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a very human problem from like 40k years ago. We evolved to belong to tribes and feel most comfortable in them. The difference is that with how mobile we are now, both physically and as far as our ability to communicate, we can now form tribes not based on our family and geographic location (which often times doesn’t fit us all that well) but based on what products we consume: cars we buy, video games we play, m…

There are alternatives that doesn't go as far as isolation or religion of course. You mention a great example yourself that shows how you can be extreme/religious for no good reason when a open alternative is clearly present: It's a worldwide phenomenon that motorcyclists in general wants to be open and inclusive. We wave to each other when we pass on the road, talk when we meet at gas stations and so on. But a Harle…

Heh. So I ride with mostly Harley guys though I don’t ride a Harley. One of the reasons we don’t wave back when riding as a group is that we use hand signals to communicate and waving looks like a left turn signal. As a result, we aren’t allowed to wave on group rides.

Secondary thing is that motorcycling is just a larger and looser consumer tribe than Harley or Yamaha or Ducati riders. Not quite as large as motorcycles + trikes, which is still smaller than bikes, trikes, and scooters. To some degree it is turtles all the way down in terms of how exclusive vs inclusive you want to be.

I personally don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with consumer tribes. The question is how does each one treat its members and newcomers and is it a healthy environment for everyone involved?

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#636

Post by ksec »

dntrkv wrote: post #631
ericmay wrote: post #579

I'll never understand why we're hell-bent on making sure people are driving around in cars. Instead of solving the problem of commuting by not having cars and by building better, we're just making commuting better and more optimized. It's so stupid. We should be making it so that you don't have to commute, not that you can do more work while you commute or w/e.

Autonomous driving is an extremely difficult problem, but it pales in comparison to the challenge of forcing a cultural shift away from driving and reimagining/rebuilding so many cities. Most Americans won't even entertain the thought of giving up their car even if alternative modes of transport make more sense.

>Autonomous driving is an extremely difficult problem,

Is it really that difficult? I often assume this difficulty comes from real world situation where you have human drivers on the same street and people walking pass.

What if none of these are problems. And all cars in the X state have to be AV Lv4?

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#637

Post by ericmay »

skylanh wrote: post #627
ericmay wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Driving is faster It's not, if you build correctly. It's only "faster" when you spread things out into suburbia. Is it faster for you to get in your car and drive next door or to just walk over there? Of course its faster to walk. Walking is faster. You can't just say "driving is faster" without qualifications. > your car is available virtually 24/7 So are your legs. Walk and bike. I don't see the relevance of many…

I think it's interesting that you have a somewhat valid point for a few use cases, but are quite myopic to the different users. If I add in: - I have children - Temperatures range from -15C to +5C to -15C on the same day, and same outing => I need to pack backup clothing for the children in case they get wet in the +5 weather, and backup snow winter clothing for when it's -15 and they get wet. => We aren't talking ni…

How does everybody else in the world do it? I don't understand why Americans specifically have to have cars, 8-lane highways, and all of this infrastructure to support themselves when the vast majority of the world doesn't. Even if they have cars they still live in small walkable neighborhoods or towns. Why can't we?

How do these people in Dinan in Brittany do these things?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinan#/media/File:Dinan_on_the...

I don't see highways and suburbs. Why can they do it but we can't?

How about Nantes (if you want a larger city)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantes#/media/File:Ile_de_Nant...

Where are the suburbs and highways and gas stations? Maybe we should ask them how they handle having kids. Do you think they have Ford Explorers?

*Also sorry I know my words are coming off as angry, but I promise it's just passion about a problem I feel very strongly about.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#638

Post by ericmay »

ksd482 wrote: post #625
ericmay wrote: post #579

I'll never understand why we're hell-bent on making sure people are driving around in cars. Instead of solving the problem of commuting by not having cars and by building better, we're just making commuting better and more optimized. It's so stupid. We should be making it so that you don't have to commute, not that you can do more work while you commute or w/e.

People have already mentioned various reasons why owning a car is personal. So this means there is more incentive for companies to build cars -- more profit to be made. Public transport on the other hand, is a massive undertaking which involves a lot of politics. So it is not nearly as profitably or incentivized. I would personally like to see public transportation improved over cars, but I may be in the minority lik…

It's not just public transportation. Hell we don't even need it really. We could just build cities better so that yea sure your family can own a car, but most of the time you just walk out your front door to the things you need for most of the time.

People have the same mentality around electric cars and range. They'll say, well I can't have an electric car because if I go on this road trip that I might do 3 days out of the year my electric car won't be able to handle that. But 99% of the time it covers your use cases...

I know this is a losing battle though. We won't build public transportation, bike lanes, or sidewalks. There's little doubt that we'll ever do that. It's just frustrating that we're so intent on just driving everywhere, spending 45 minutes each way in a car, thousands of teenagers dying, vast amounts of pollution, an untold number of habitats destroyed, pavement and concrete everywhere, and it's just because we decided that every family should live in the suburbs and drive everywhere. There's no good reason. It's insanity.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#639

Post by ericmay »

lazerpants wrote: post #626
ericmay wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok ok so now walk me through what this looks like if everybody in Manhattan takes a car.

Turns into a nightmare of course. But it's gated by how much you can afford to pay. The new congestion charges will really be a boon to the ultra-wealthy since the charges are minuscule compared to what they are willing to pay and it will get poorer drivers off the streets. I would prefer it if the congestion charges were scaled to usage rates for that reason (example, you can enter the toll zone once per month for f…

Sure, but my point was it was claimed that driving was faster, but it's only faster for people with large incomes who can afford it. It's not faster if everybody does it.

I also am willing to bet if you compared "everybody walk" vs "everybody drive" walking would win out by a large margin in Manhattan.

Flying a private jet is faster than taking a Southwest Airlines flight too...

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#640

Post by ericmay »

dntrkv wrote: post #631
ericmay wrote: post #579

I'll never understand why we're hell-bent on making sure people are driving around in cars. Instead of solving the problem of commuting by not having cars and by building better, we're just making commuting better and more optimized. It's so stupid. We should be making it so that you don't have to commute, not that you can do more work while you commute or w/e.

Autonomous driving is an extremely difficult problem, but it pales in comparison to the challenge of forcing a cultural shift away from driving and reimagining/rebuilding so many cities. Most Americans won't even entertain the thought of giving up their car even if alternative modes of transport make more sense.

I know. We're so fucked because of it too. We've built a lot of infrastructure we can't afford to maintain and we're just building more and spreading out more. Getting fatter, more anti-social. Etc.

Hard to be racist when your neighbor is black. A lot easier to do it while you scroll Facebook algorithms on your autonomous 45 minute drive to an office.

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