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Software is eating the car

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Software is eating the car

#151

Post by kart23 »

mthomasmw wrote: post #6

Serious question - what alternatives are left for those of us who want a dumb car? I've spent the last three months finding out I can't get solar panels installed without a high-fidelity power-monitor tap connected to the provider's cloud, logging every appliance I use and what it's doing. Same deal with cars - they are on the internet and they generate evidence used to convict, and geofencing is coming. Other than s…

Stockpiling used cars sounds good to me honestly. Land Cruisers are pretty bulletproof, they're regularly on the road through 300,000 miles.

Re: Software is eating the car

#153

Post by Animats »

neilpanchal wrote: post #104
vannevar wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who wants a dumb car. Unfortunately, the idea of electric cars has become bound up with the notion of software-driven cars. I want an electric car with analog controls, no touch screens or over-the-air updates, and minimal software. A car that I feel like I own, rather than one I'm getting a click-through license to use.

Check out Bollinger motors [1]. Electric chassis, all analog, no screens. Here is a shot of the interior: https://bollingermotors.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/CLOSE... [1] https://bollingermotors.com/

On the other hand, a row of 15 or so identical toggle switches isn't the right answer either.

Re: Software is eating the car

#154

Post by rootusrootus »

circularfoyers wrote: post #105
rootusrootus wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> insanely popular in circles like HN Heck, even then I expect it would just be popular with a very small, very loud niche within HN.

By loud I assume you mean the top comments, which says to me this is popular with the many not the few of the HN crowd.

I don't think I'm willing to go that far. What constitutes 'the HN crowd'? The folks who come here and read the stories, but do not read the comments? Or just the ones who read the comments? Or only the subset of those who read the comments who actually bother to vote. Or participate with their own commentary?

It's pretty easy for a small subset of individuals to appear as if they accurately represent the wider group.

Re: Software is eating the car

#155

Post by steveklabnik »

agumonkey wrote: post #143
pjmlp wrote: post #31

Best of all, it is all written in C and C++, with all the security it entails.

oh its funny.. of all the rust trend storm I cannot recall one mention of automotive industry usage (not that I imply it's not used.. I just don't remember hearing about that).. this is a place where I'd really love safer languages. btw any embedded car ADA shops ?

There are some rumblings of Rust in automotive, but nothing I can publicly point you to definitively.

Re: Software is eating the car

#156

Post by gilbetron »

arpyzo wrote: post #48
zippergz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000% agree. I do not want a car that is a smartphone on wheels and I have no idea why so many people find this attractive.

I own a 2014 Subaru Impreza and my brother in-law a 2017. I've driven both extensively. Sometime during those years, Subaru switched from knobs and levers to a touchscreen and the controls are so much worse! 1. The controls on the 2014 are obvious, easy to find, and my choices are readily apparent. In the 2017 I have to search for them and often guess their meanings. If I'm actively driving, I just give up because it…

I have a 2016 Outback and love nearly everything about the car, except the stupid console. Just horrible in the ways you describe. Laggy, unintuitive, and just irritating to use. I only ever use the actual buttons on the steering wheel. Not only is the console touch screen bad, but the actual buttons for the HVAC system are weird and unintuitive. 4 years of owning it and I still push the wrong buttons.

Re: Software is eating the car

#157

Post by gilbetron »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

One of our cars is a 2004 Toyota Tacoma with everything analog except the radio, and I vastly prefer it. If it just had a usb plug so I could play music from my phone, it would be ideal. Oh, and oddly, the radio doesn't have a clock. Bizarre.

It I can 100% everything better than our 2016 Subaru Outback with it's annoying touch screen console.

Plus my nieces and nephews are amused by the actual manual window openers.

Re: Software is eating the car

#158

Post by Aunche »

bruce343434 wrote: post #87
MengerSponge wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda doesn't get nearly enough respect for their work identifying and correcting this issue. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur... Touchscreens/touch panels are shiny, futuristic, dangerous, dumb, and cheap. Manufacturers use them because they lower BOM costs, at the expense of usability and safety. Vote with your wallet folks.

Just looked at the mazda website and what are you talking about? They removed almost all the buttons from the interior to some sort of tablet.

The tablet can only be controlled by the knob (which is honestly kind of annoying) and is only used for infotainment purposes. Most things are controlled by a knob, switch, or button.

Re: Software is eating the car

#159

Post by kajecounterhack »

gilbetron wrote: post #157
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

One of our cars is a 2004 Toyota Tacoma with everything analog except the radio, and I vastly prefer it. If it just had a usb plug so I could play music from my phone, it would be ideal. Oh, and oddly, the radio doesn't have a clock. Bizarre. It I can 100% everything better than our 2016 Subaru Outback with it's annoying touch screen console. Plus my nieces and nephews are amused by the actual manual window openers.

FWIW Subaru kinda just has crappy digital components. Corresponding touch screen console from recent year Toyotas are pretty good, especially with CarPlay / Android Auto.

Re: Software is eating the car

#160

Post by Buttons840 »

duped wrote: post #133
Buttons840 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the dark pattern of presenting a license agreement over and over until it's accepted? I predict one day someone will make the argument in court that they always declined the EULA (perhaps the one in their car) hundreds of times, but one day accidentally brushed "accept" with their finger, and that doesn't constitute legal acceptance, especially since they've demonstrated an effort to decline the EULA, but be…

If I'm the dark pattern developer I'm not logging when the EULA is accepted or how many times they declined it.

You mean you'll only log that it has been accepted and nothing more?

I guess it becomes their word against... well, nothing, you don't know what they did or didn't do.

For those who care enough to reject EULAs, they should take a few videos of rejecting the license and hopefully that would be enough to shift the onus to the manufacturer, who, as you said, has next to nothing.

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