What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour • Hacker News Board

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#441

Post by teolandon » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #334

imtringued wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bill Gates says people shouldn't own land, should always rent. Private ownership of land doesn't work because land value goes up even with no input of the land owner. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Everybod... You are free to own the house and car.

> land value goes up even with no input of the land owner. but this happens to other rare objects as well (value goes up without input from the owners), why is land so targeted? My take is that _everything_ should be ownable, and owned. For example, if someone owned the air you breath, then you would have to pay to breath it. But it would also give incentive for this owner to stop pollution of the air - after all, yo…

I'd pay to breathe polluted air if that was the only air that was available to buy in my area. After all, people will choose to die slowly instead of choking to death immediately.

There are real world examples of this. Internet, tap water, etc.

Your philosophy doesn't seem very well thought out.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#442

Post by _fat_santa » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

Communitivity wrote: post #418

What galls me the most I think is that minimum wage in 20 states within the U.S. is still at $7.25/Hour. Driving does not require a huge amount of skill, and it's something many us already know. Why not hire a person to do this? Well, perhaps an argument can be made for safety, reliability. Then again, perhaps the same argument can be made that a good human hire is safer than the machine, which can be hacked (any mac…

I recently purchased an old 4Runner from the mid 2000's, I though I would hate it, but it's become my favorite car (that I've owned) of all time. The biggest reason is seeing articles like these, more and more cars are closed off, requiring you to "subscribe" to get all the features of the vehicle.

My car doesn't play those games, it's a simple car, no infotainment system, no self driving or autopilot features, no subscription features. Everything works exactly as expected, something breaks and it's easy to fix. Even thought its super basic and doesn't have any modern features, its my favorite car I've ever owned.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#443

Post by owl57 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

qayxc wrote: post #370

owl57 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? Neither you need to be an expert in file systems to stick a file on a server. And, yes, 99% of the time you don't need a DBA, just install Postgres on said server and go ahead with ORM.

Unless that file is to be read by 1000 users simultaneously - that's where the fun begins ;)

Agree, when you have thousands of simultaneous users, it could be time to think what the hell are you doing.

But the number sounds a bit off… I have fuzzy memories of some fun around that many concurrent requests with Apache 1.3 — that is, one process per user. Doesn't the fun begin quite a bit higher with just any more modern software?

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Post by yardie » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

jtbayly wrote: post #378

gambiting wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's......beyond dumb. Like, if you don't pay him the extra $200, he's not extracting any extra value from these bedrooms. It's not like they can be rented to someone else in the meantime. So.....why do it in the first place?

Because he doesn’t lose anything, but has the possibility of gaining something.

He's definitely losing something. Property taxes are based on area and number of rooms. They could have found a tenant looking for the right number of rooms in their budget.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Post by Dah00n » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

mft_ wrote: post #336

Rygian wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did you test-drive? Regular Tesla auto-pilot, or the limited-access FSD Beta? They are radically different experiences.

This is important. From the original description, my suspicion is it’s the regular (i.e. not advanced beta) “full self driving“ package, which I have on my model 3. Truth is, it’s pretty limited, and you’ve got to learn the types of situations where it will and won’t cope. Through town, situations with parked cars, or weird lane markings, it will struggle. However, the flipside is that on longer journeys – with mostl…

The FSD beta is way worse. You have to be much more conscious about everything that happens around you than with the "old package". Then you might as well drive yourself. In my experience it's like how it feels being in a car driven by an old relative that clearly shouldn't be driving a car anymore but you're too polite to tell him.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Post by globular-toast » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

JohnWhigham wrote: post #421

globular-toast wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't you want the ability to own something if you feel the desire to do so Well... that's not really how things work, is it? Already there are things that you will never be able to own and a lot of it depends on the circumstances of your birth. Since you mention houses it touches upon another point which you may have been suggesting. Should ownership of certain basic things be a right? What should be included in t…

A basic house of some standard? A car? Well, 60 years ago those were attainable relatively quickly for someone without a high school degree. Now they aren't (unless you want to live in the middle of nowhere) for someone even with a college degree. So something went awry in the meantime.

Just because something was possible doesn't mean it should always be possible. I'm not saying whether it should or shouldn't be in this case; I really don't know. But it should be obvious that in the past ~100 years people have been taking far too much from the Earth without any thought to sustainability or the future. What was common 60 years ago was not necessarily right.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Post by bagacrap » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

midasuni wrote: post #111

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My knowledge of them is from here[0] and I understand their availability to have generally declined over the past several years. [0]: https://www.seat61.com/motorail-trains.htm

Because they don’t justify the massive subsidies. Sleepers have had a little resurgence over the last year or two, but motorail demand is low and costs are high. Demand at market price is even lower. With a good motorway network and reliable cars people just aren’t willing to spend 5 times the price to go on a train. Even they were, it’s not sustainable. Far better to fly or train to a remote city and hire a car on a…

Isn't the existence of a good motorway network also a massive subsidy to motorists?

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Post by dingoegret » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

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Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Post by wutbrodo » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #410

bluGill wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't be long after self driving arrives and you won't get that option. Humans are terrible drivers, even in the best cases. Once self driving is better survival than humans it won't be legal to drive on public roads.

> Humans are terrible drivers, even in the best cases. Humans drive correctly 99.99999% of the time. We can't can't even keep a computer up and running that well, never mind driving perfectly. See this thread with the math: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12012166 The future you are expecting is never going to happen.

> Humans drive correctly 99.99999% of the time. We can't can't even keep a computer up and running that well, never mind driving perfectly.

This comparison doesn't make any sense. You're comparing _continuous_ operation with the aggregate of the average human's bouts of driving. Even robotaxis aren't going to run constantly. A sensible analogue would be something like aircraft software, which I'd guess does have near the reliability of human drivers (and can last much longer continuously than humans do).

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Post by bagacrap » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

flemhans wrote: post #190

squarefoot wrote: post #182

What I would pay for autonomous driving? Zero. Actually I would even pay not to have it. People shouldn't be given incentives to waste more time into their cars other than the strict necessary, and autonomous driving would make things easier, so that a 5 hours trip becomes two movies and a nap. And workers will accept more and more telecommuting at outrageous distances. No thanks, I'll rather keep hating driving. Dis…

I'm looking forward to a self-driving RV, and waking up in a new city every morning.

Not to rag on your dream, but this is exactly what GP was worried about, and concerns me as well. With a self driving RV you are going to spend even more time driving around, because why not? Many other people will also be willing to commute 2 hours each way to work in Santa Monica and live in Fontana. But that comes with a large cost to the environment and makes traffic worse for everyone.