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French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

independent.co.uk

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Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#361

Post by herbst »

hollerith wrote: post #283
gip wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what do you mean by "bad" in that context? In my book, asking people to practice or learn a new language is not inerently bad. Decision-making should not be reduced to the law of the majority. If Europe wants to push people to learn and practice more foreign languages, I'm all for it. (Disclosure: that starts with me, I speak 3 languages and I'm learning a fourth one).

The head of the English department of my local community college (in the US) told me that it takes about 7 years of study for an average immigrant's English to get good enough that native speakers start wanting to have conversations with the immigrant. Some people require much less time, but for most people, learning a new language (particularly learning to speak it and not just read it) is a very large investment in…

Swiss here. Many if not most not actually speak two languages (we have 4 btw) or at least not enough to have actual conversations. I even know people who live in split cities (also that's a thing, one river side German and one french) who basically avoid the French side and barely speak it either.

There are many exceptions to this for sure, after all German part has french for like 4 years at school. And older people more likely actually learned the language to the point of speaking it, younger people are usually much more skilled in English as their second language whatever they are French, German.

Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#362

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

SllX wrote: post #184
throwawayay02 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, what about Strasbourg?

One of the two capitals of the EU. Why does the EU need two capitals? Because France wanted a win. The European Parliament would love to pick up and leave Strasbourg, but it is legally bound to meet there several times a year for a full session despite the majority of its work being in Brussels.

> One of the two capitals of the EU. Why does the EU need two capitals? Because France wanted a win.

Yes, it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Strasbourg is the capital of a region which was highly contested between France and Germany and changed hands multiple times in the last two centuries and is seen as a symbole of the reconciliation between the two countries. It's also not linked at all with the fact it was already the seat of the Council of Europe when the parliament was put there.

Also, the EU doesn't have two capitals. It has none.

Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#363

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

mywittyname wrote: post #161
chrisbennet wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

184cm = 6ft

Okay, so this makes me wonder something. So 6 foot tall (72in) is like a magic number for American men. That's like the threshold for manliness in popular culture. If you were to plot the self-reported heights men in America, you'd absolutely see a dip at 70 and 71 inches, then a big spike at 72in. What's this magic number in various metric countries? 185cm seems like a sound choice, but I could see it being 190 in s…

> What's this magic number in various metric countries?

There is no magic number here. The weird emphasis on height is very much an American peculiarity.

Some (maybe most) women don't want to be in a relationship with a guy smaller than them when they wear heels and some like tall guys but that's pretty much it.

Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#364

Post by [deleted] »

nico_h wrote: post #351
heinrichhartman wrote: post #19

The sane thing to do after the Brexit, was to embrace English as main language, since it has not become neutral ground! According to Wikipedia we have: * Germany: 56% English speakers, 14.5% French speakers * Italy: 34% English vs. 19.43% French * Spain: 22% English vs. 11.73% French * Sweden: 89% English vs. 8% French I can't get over how bad this decision is. How can you ignore these kinds of discrepancies? [1] htt…

Everybody uses Javascript, why use another programming language? English is newspeak. They should just replace English as one of the three working language of the EU with esperanto / ido / interlingua or another conlang.

[deleted]

Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#365

Post by Kelamir »

tgv wrote: post #14

> the taste and pride of multilingualism For everybody but the French, that is. > that ersatz of the English language, which narrows the scope of one’s thoughts, and restricts one’s ability to express him or herself And the ability to formulate a new policy with a subtle twist in your favor that no-one gets until it's too late. Embarrassing.

> that ersatz of the English language, which narrows the scope of one’s thoughts, and restricts one’s ability to express him or herself

They should use Ithkuil instead then :D

Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#366

Post by JProthero »

tgragnato wrote: post #349
JProthero wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main contributions in rationalism and empiricism are not French. Are you certain of this? I can think of many contributions to rationalism and empiricism made by French speakers that I feel are important. The metric system, for instance, was in large part a French project [01]. Here are a few French rationalists and empiricists that came to my mind when I read your comment: Alain Aspect Contemporary exerimental…

"The main contribution in rationalism and empiricism are not French" does not equal "French speakers did not contribute relevant knowledge in rationalism or empiricism" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalism Hindu and Greek philosophers, Islamic golden age, Italian renaissance, British empiricism, Scottish Enlightenment, Austrian/German empiricism, US Pragmatism, ... I'm no…

I wouldn't dispute much of what you wrote above, but I do think the French contribution to empiricism and rationalism qualifies as major (difficult as these things are to measure), and that that contribution is at least similar to the other large European nations.

I understand there is a common perception that French academic culture has literary preoccupations, but I don't think the idea that those preoccupations have disadvantaged French science holds up to much scrutiny, much as one might want it to after listening to a fruitless monologue about Derrida.

It's heartening to me that there are people in the EU arguing in favour of pragmatic gestures of friendship to the UK as you point out; I'm all for it and hope it is continued and mutual, regardless of whether the UK is legally part of the organisation.

Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#367

Post by alberto_ol »

melesian wrote: post #120
CodeGlitch wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ireland: 99% English

I doubt it's as low as that! Malta and the Netherlands are other countries where a large majority also speak English. In some places in the EU the UK's union jack flag is being replaced with the Irish tricolour on bank ATM's display of language choices, which amuses the Irish.

According to the wikipedia page linked above republic of ireland: total english speakers 98.37% as first languge 93.22%

For the UK the figures are: total speakers 98.3% as first language 92.3%

Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#368

Post by sam_lowry_ »

varajelle wrote: post #163
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of them live in Brussels and speak at least casual French.

You can live in Brussels just fine without speaking French

Yep, but this is more of an exception, still.

Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#369

Post by [deleted] »

Bayart wrote: post #248
cinntaile wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this can be generalized? Language entitlement seems to be a thing among French speaking regions. Whether it's French Canada, French Belgium or France?

Funny to see so much drab posturing about our supposed « language entitlement » while almost calling for languages to be rolled over and wiped out by English. I'm quite certain the position of French-Canadians has little to do with « entitlement », and more with how trapped they feel. Not that Anglo-Canadians would give a rats ass about the actual motives of Québec's cultural policy, as long as it can get weaponized…

[deleted]

Re: French set to replace English as EU’s ‘working language’

#370

Post by okamiueru »

gip wrote: post #238
cipher_system wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Sweden and Germany all (guess >99%) of the french speakers speak english way better then french. The amount of english we're exposed to is so massive and the french is basically non-existent. This is such a useless egoistic move from the french, just accept that english is the lingua franca.

I think that is your personal interpretation and I am surprised at how angry your comment is. I lived in the Netherlands, worked for an international organization and I still have a lot of friends who works (or worked) in Brussels. Few comments: 1. The level of profentiency in foreign language of people working for the European institutions is orders of magnitude higher than readers of HN. Not too mention translators…

Which circles do you wonder in that you do not rarely meet people who speak 6 languages fluently? Maybe I misunderstood, and you meant this for professional translators? I think I've yet to come across one such case in my life, and I live in Norway, where you can "cheat" by counting Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish as three separate, and English you get for free.
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