iOS 15 Humane • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#251

Post by mensetmanusman » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:52 AM UTC

I think the largest effect would be a focus on what types of “”””news”””” someone as being exposed to.

For example, my experience with Facebook emotionally plummeted after they added the news tab on the right hand side. I don’t know what the current status is, because I basically stopped using Facebook because I couldn’t help getting pulled into the emotional nonsense of the conflicts that were being artificially portrayed.

Replace news articles with interesting historical or natural wonders on Wikipedia, and I think that would slowly force media organizations to stop relying on conflict and anger to generate revenue.

to;dr the internet should default towards eliciting senses of wonder for the user instead of senses of conflict.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#252

Post by donkeyd » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:55 AM UTC

blackoil wrote: post #126

wickedsight wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcoholics want booze, but many of them wake up every day thinking today they won't drink anything, but they still do. Infinite scroll is a dark pattern in the way it gives you something your addicted brain wants, and therefore you think you might want, but it's actually just a way for them to get more money. Personal anecdote: I hardly read more than the front page on HN, even though I consider HN one of the least '…

HN shows 30 stories on front page. If they reduce it to 5 your usage may decrease so are they following a dark pattern? or if they increase the no. to 50 will it become a dark pattern?

How about 5000? This then becomes a useless discussion of where, between 0 and infinity I will deem it a dark pattern or not. I don't know, but I do consider infinity with the purpose of keeping people engaged a 'dark pattern', as do others of you look at the article I shared. Maybe you don't and that's fine.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#253

Post by bipson » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:57 AM UTC

spython wrote: post #149

The article wants Apple to save us from mindless browsing, but I see mindless browsing as unavoidable. Not because of some technical or legal thing, but because mindless browsing is a good thing. We need it. Mindless browsing is like a walk through the woods, just looking for what is happening, navigating a huge amount of information that is hardly important at the moment – oh, the cherry tree is blooming – but could…

I disagree wholeheartedly.

Mindless browsing will occupy my attention, keeps me distracted and on the edge, draining my energy and mental capacity, makes me jittery - even if this realization took me quite some time.

A walk in the woods is refreshing and my mind is focused, wandering maybe aimlessly, but well-paced, on its own time, makes me relaxed and open-minded.

We like distraction, our mind craves it, often we don't want to think about what bothers us. But allowing all the random itches that bother us is the only way to address them and let them go.

Also, I have zero, NIL creativity after mindless browsing, I am drained.

Alone with myself and my thoughts on a train or a walk the thoughts are no longer buzzing, they are forming, transforming, becoming real ideas.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#254

Post by eloisius » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 11:00 AM UTC

If I could ask Apple for one thing it would be to require approval of every push notification that an app developer wants to deliver. That an app gets either cart blanche to send me notifications or nothing at all drives me crazy. I don't want to miss a notification that my delivery food arrived, but I don't want to be bombarded with daily advertising messages from foodpanda trying to get me to change my behavior. Require app developers to submit a template string (and not "\(message)") for each notification the app can deliver for approval in the App Store and let me have an on/off switch for each one.

"Notifications" across every platform drive me crazy, because they usually start out as useful, but because people tend to pay them more attention than all the other channels that have already been tuned out, companies start juicing them for engagement. I use twitter rarely, but every time I do I am perplexed why my "notifications" are full of crap about who recently tweeted. Shouldn't that just be in my timeline?

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#255

Post by fsflover » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 11:01 AM UTC

zuppy wrote: post #236

int_19h wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it's possible to do both of those things (stability vs hacking) in the same time Why is it not possible, exactly?

let me come back to you with a question: do you have an example where this works? being hackable means exactly the opposite of stability: you can change low level features and break things. if there is a chance to do it, people can be tricked to do it. of course, i'm excluding here people who have knowledge, as i continue to belive that they are a minority.

> being hackable means exactly the opposite of stability

Any computer with preinstalled Linux will "just work". Typical users will only install apps from the repositories, and those are more secure and private than App Store.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#256

Post by mensetmanusman » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 11:03 AM UTC

mackrevinack wrote: post #186

rho4 wrote: post #28

Meanwhile, today Microsoft gifted us a brand new "News & interests" area in the taskbar lobbying for our focus and attention. Successfully... I even had to google how to turn it off, and write this comment.

my dad was asking me how to get rid of that yesterday because it was annoying him. i noticed that he also had the cortana search box on the left of the taskbar and asked if he ever used it and he said no. all these years it's just been there taking up valuable space and then 'new & interests' appears out nowhere last week and starts talking up even more valuable space. my poor dad had about 8 programs open but there…

When you have hundreds of teams of people whose promotions are driven by what gets deployed and seen by the user, it is almost inevitable that we reach this situation.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#257

Post by Jenz » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 11:04 AM UTC

spython wrote: post #149

The article wants Apple to save us from mindless browsing, but I see mindless browsing as unavoidable. Not because of some technical or legal thing, but because mindless browsing is a good thing. We need it. Mindless browsing is like a walk through the woods, just looking for what is happening, navigating a huge amount of information that is hardly important at the moment – oh, the cherry tree is blooming – but could…

This is the most comforting thing I ever have read (and right now, I needed that).

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#258

Post by bengale » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 11:08 AM UTC

eloisius wrote: post #254

If I could ask Apple for one thing it would be to require approval of every push notification that an app developer wants to deliver. That an app gets either cart blanche to send me notifications or nothing at all drives me crazy. I don't want to miss a notification that my delivery food arrived, but I don't want to be bombarded with daily advertising messages from foodpanda trying to get me to change my behavior. Re…

Something really should be done about this. The food delivery apps are worst for this, they seem to know you can't turn alerts off without losing a key feature, but then use it to advertise. They should be made to split this out so you can turn one off without the other.

I'd love to customise the alert level for news apps. I would leave on actually important breaking news, but I have to turn it all off because they bombard me with worthless stuff. I want to know if the PMs head explodes, but I really don't care which royal has had another baby.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#259

Post by grishka » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

eloisius wrote: post #254

If I could ask Apple for one thing it would be to require approval of every push notification that an app developer wants to deliver. That an app gets either cart blanche to send me notifications or nothing at all drives me crazy. I don't want to miss a notification that my delivery food arrived, but I don't want to be bombarded with daily advertising messages from foodpanda trying to get me to change my behavior. Re…

It's more interesting in Android. There's no notification permission, as every app is able to send notifications by default. But, there are notification categories. You can turn them off individually. Yes, the app developer is supposed to specify them themselves. And most actually do. Those who don't drive me nuts tho. I'm very careful with what I receive notifications about.

Apple could definitely copy that. Right now the iOS notification system is useless because of how overwhelmed you get with everything and how notifications disappear by themselves when you unlock the phone.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#260

Post by eloisius » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 11:12 AM UTC

bengale wrote: post #258

eloisius wrote: post #254

If I could ask Apple for one thing it would be to require approval of every push notification that an app developer wants to deliver. That an app gets either cart blanche to send me notifications or nothing at all drives me crazy. I don't want to miss a notification that my delivery food arrived, but I don't want to be bombarded with daily advertising messages from foodpanda trying to get me to change my behavior. Re…

Something really should be done about this. The food delivery apps are worst for this, they seem to know you can't turn alerts off without losing a key feature, but then use it to advertise. They should be made to split this out so you can turn one off without the other. I'd love to customise the alert level for news apps. I would leave on actually important breaking news, but I have to turn it all off because they b…

Agreed. It seems short-sighted of Apple to let notifications become an advertising channel. It works against their customers. A start could be requiring developers to categorize their notifications as transactional or advertising, but I'd really like the granularity to switch certain types of notifications on and off from the Settings app, or on the "manage" menu of the notification itself have the option to not get notifications like this one anymore.