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iOS 15 Humane

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Re: iOS 15 Humane

#191

Post by simonh »

StavrosK wrote: post #173
simonh wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there is. I don't want Facebook or Google to move all their apps to side loading or an alternate store with lax controls and opaque privacy disclosure. I need to use their apps, but I want them to have to satisfy Apple's app store policies. Side landing and alternate stores would cripple the effectiveness of those policies.

So the reasoning is "if you allow my phone to be unlocked, so many people will want alternate stores that Facebook and Google will unlist their apps from the App Store and use the alternative stores only, and then they won't be as rigorously reviewed"? Like how you can't get Facebook on the Play Store because it's only available on F-droid on Android, for example? That's certainly... interesting.

Epic, Facebook, Google, Amazon, Spotify and a host of other companies are itching to get on to a rival 'Freedom' app store on iOS, with lax controls and weak privacy disclosure. Where they go, users would have to follow. It's not as though users are crying out for weaker privacy disclosure, but they'd go anyway.

Facebook is quite happy on the Play Store because it has weak privacy and disclosure policies, because Google has no interest in enforcing such things.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#192

Post by fsflover »

aks_tldr wrote: post #180
fsflover wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they offered anyone the ability to jailbreak, you would see major app makers manipulating naive users into jailbreaking in order to bypass security This is FUD. Linux works flawlessly despite giving all the freedoms. Typical users don't install anything outside the repositories. Apple has countless problems with security and privacy in their App Store.

That is because Linux is not used by general public.

Unfortunately you can't even find a Linux computer in shops anywhere, which could be the reason few people use it. It's actually harder to find malware there.

See also: Android is Linux used by the general public.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#193

Post by p49k »

StavrosK wrote: post #169
simonh wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want my kids rooting their phones. Also I use facebook, but I dislike it and don't trust them, but I use it and Messenger occasionally to keep in touch with some friends. I also use WhatsApp fair bit. I like the fact that Facebook can't pull their apps from the store, put them on a rival store with lax standards, or otherwise circumvent the app store controls. These controls clear benefits for me, but side lo…

> Why do you want to take my choice away from me? You keep repeating this disingenuous argument. If you don't want to root your phone, don't root it. If you don't want your kids to be able to root their phones, don't pretend like you aren't taking away their choice. If you don't want rival stores with lax standards, don't install them. Just don't keep telling people who want to be given a choice that they're somehow…

This is unrealistic. If it were easy to root an iPhone, then we would reach a situation where app developers would stop releasing necessary apps in the App Store because they want to bypass all the ethical behavior it requires. It would effectively force everyone to the lowest common denominator.

If it were possible to root an iPhone, Facebook would have never agreed to give users the option to stop tracking them across apps; they would have instead said “please watch this video and do what it says to continue using Facebook/Instagram!” and guide naive users into rooting their phones.

Closed ecosystems have many advantages (and disadvantages) over open ones. However, a closed ecosystem with a gaping hole in the wall is no longer a closed ecosystem; you can’t have it both ways.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#194

Post by StavrosK »

p49k wrote: post #193
StavrosK wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want to take my choice away from me? You keep repeating this disingenuous argument. If you don't want to root your phone, don't root it. If you don't want your kids to be able to root their phones, don't pretend like you aren't taking away their choice. If you don't want rival stores with lax standards, don't install them. Just don't keep telling people who want to be given a choice that they're somehow…

This is unrealistic. If it were easy to root an iPhone, then we would reach a situation where app developers would stop releasing necessary apps in the App Store because they want to bypass all the ethical behavior it requires. It would effectively force everyone to the lowest common denominator. If it were possible to root an iPhone, Facebook would have never agreed to give users the option to stop tracking them acr…

I don't know what to tell you if you believe that, while conversions drop off a cliff if the "signup" button isn't prominent, asking users to unlock their bootloader and install a third party app store just to get Facebook working on their phone is a thing that would get a nonzero amount of users.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#195

Post by andrepd »

spython wrote: post #149

The article wants Apple to save us from mindless browsing, but I see mindless browsing as unavoidable. Not because of some technical or legal thing, but because mindless browsing is a good thing. We need it. Mindless browsing is like a walk through the woods, just looking for what is happening, navigating a huge amount of information that is hardly important at the moment – oh, the cherry tree is blooming – but could…

A walk through the woods is not engineered by Las Vegas casino designers backed by petabytes of user data to be as addictive as possible.

There's taking an aimless stroll and there's compulsively opening reddit or facebook at 3am.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#196

Post by brailsafe »

spython wrote: post #149

The article wants Apple to save us from mindless browsing, but I see mindless browsing as unavoidable. Not because of some technical or legal thing, but because mindless browsing is a good thing. We need it. Mindless browsing is like a walk through the woods, just looking for what is happening, navigating a huge amount of information that is hardly important at the moment – oh, the cherry tree is blooming – but could…

Mindless browsing does have it's place, but it's often not in it's place, and it's certainly not a walk in the woods. A walk in the woods either allows the sounds of your brain to rest or for them to come to light and allow you to work on them. The pointless information cacophony is the opposite imo; it temporarily tranquilizes them, never letting them be addressed. Where a walk in the woods can be stress-relieving and possibly actually social, mindless browsing just throws your stress into a garbage bin, that just gets taken to a dump; you're pretty sure you dealt with it, it's not here anymore right?

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#197

Post by ckolkey »

I absolutely love this idea. I find that nudges or 'speedbumps' offer just enough of a barrier to get me to reconsider my own actions, sort of snapping me out of a trance. I would welcome these kind of changes.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#198

Post by p49k »

StavrosK wrote: post #194
p49k wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unrealistic. If it were easy to root an iPhone, then we would reach a situation where app developers would stop releasing necessary apps in the App Store because they want to bypass all the ethical behavior it requires. It would effectively force everyone to the lowest common denominator. If it were possible to root an iPhone, Facebook would have never agreed to give users the option to stop tracking them acr…

I don't know what to tell you if you believe that, while conversions drop off a cliff if the "signup" button isn't prominent, asking users to unlock their bootloader and install a third party app store just to get Facebook working on their phone is a thing that would get a nonzero amount of users.

Epic literally did this with Fortnite on Android, one of the largest mobile games in existence - they taught users how to download the APK and sideload the app to avoid the Google Play store.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#199

Post by squiggleblaz »

Crazyontap wrote: post #49

Even though this article is sarcastic(?) I can't help but get genuinely angry at these trillion dollar companies thinking they know what is better for us and trying to control and police everything. This is even worse than govt censoring porn and cuss-words back in the day thinking they know what is moral for the society. I was just talking to a friend the other day on how badly Apple and Google are trying their best…

Your comment entirely misses the point of the article, and your frustration is completely backwards.

The current situation is that Facebook is not limited in their use of patterns that increase your engagement. The author of the comment is proposing some extensions to iOS that mean that Facebook is able to use patterns that increase your engagement, but you're also able to turn it off.

From your perspective of wanting more control over your devices, isn't this a win? It isn't injecting javascript into a running webapp with an extension that monkeypatches it. But you gave that up by using a native app on iOS. It gets you back a huge amount of control. If you want more, there's LineageOS (self compile it with patched source code by using robotnix) and PinePhone. The jump from trusted to trustless is a big one now but it's not insurmountable.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#200

Post by antonyh »

Batched notifications: I'd love this. As it currently stands, most of my apps have lost permission to notify because they abuse it. I don't want to be constantly prodded and poked to interact, so there's very few that get it enabled now. That even includes email, and it's so much better. It's reduced screen time massively, and I mostly check email on desktop instead now with my phone as a secondary on-the-go way of communicating.

Turning off autoplay, yes please. Greyscale, interesting idea. The rest of it, meh. I'm not so sure it would have any meaningful impact or that it wouldn't be replaced with other much darker patterns.

Better user-centric control of notifications is what we really need to silence the cry for attention by the apps and would go a long way towards allieviating digital addiction in my opinion.

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