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Drug users use a lot of drugs

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Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#121

Post by eurasiantiger »

m-ee wrote: post #117
jlarocco wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like this article overall but I get irritated when I read stuff about drug users that is clearly written by somebody who hasn’t done a lot of drugs. To be fair, though, medical doctors with personal experience using meth are probably a very small group, and it's unlikely they're in a big hurry to write an article talking about their experience. But who knows...

Unless this is a regional thing I wonder where the doctor even got that idea, I wasn't even aware people snort meth until now. Meanwhile I walked past two people lighting up after leaving a job interview in soma last week. Any doctor who's worked in the ER or psych ward in SF would be familiar with how its used, meth induced psychosis is very common around here.

No such thing as meth-induced psychosis. Yes, people might appear psychotic while under the influence, but that is not psychosis in the clinical sense.

The few that do lose their rationality lose it because they don’t sleep for weeks. They likely also live in an unsafe environment which keeps them in a perpetual state of survival stress.

Survival stress + not sleeping + stimulants —> psychosis. Very rarely any of these alone, unless the individual is predisposed.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#122

Post by [deleted] »

Smithalicious wrote: post #116
cwkoss wrote: post #66

I think another major factor that this article didn't point out is drug purity - and what those specific impurities are. Particularly with drugs like meth, which can be manufactured clandestinely by people who don't understand chemistry well, there are a lot of intermediates or potential reaction byproducts which are orders of magnitude more cardiotoxic or otherwise more harmful than pure methamphetamine. And that's…

AFAIK almost all street ketamine is just diverted medical supply. Might be cut with something, but other than that it is pharmaceutical grade.

[deleted]

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#123

Post by [deleted] »

m-ee wrote: post #117
jlarocco wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like this article overall but I get irritated when I read stuff about drug users that is clearly written by somebody who hasn’t done a lot of drugs. To be fair, though, medical doctors with personal experience using meth are probably a very small group, and it's unlikely they're in a big hurry to write an article talking about their experience. But who knows...

Unless this is a regional thing I wonder where the doctor even got that idea, I wasn't even aware people snort meth until now. Meanwhile I walked past two people lighting up after leaving a job interview in soma last week. Any doctor who's worked in the ER or psych ward in SF would be familiar with how its used, meth induced psychosis is very common around here.

[deleted]

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#124

Post by eurasiantiger »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #101
sharken wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Must admit the specifics of doing drugs is not that interesting to me, it's more interesting to ask the question: How does someone stop doing drugs?

There are two methods I know of. Either you stop doing the thing, or you do other things instead. The first requires a presence of mind to enter the void left behind by the thing, that people doing drugs probably lack, since they are, in essence, stimulation addicts. Drugs fill a void they avoid facing. Stopping doing drugs would cause them to face that void. The second is more amenable, because you can taper off wit…

Chocolate has a lot of PEA which activates the TAAR1 receptor just like amphetamines.

In fact, all amphetamines contain a PEA base - they are substitutes phenylethylamines, for example Alpha-MethylPHenEThylAMINE.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#125

Post by eurasiantiger »

anticodon wrote: post #104
brutal_chaos_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A strong desire to quit and a big support network (family, friends, recovery centers, etc). We tend to look down on addicts, when in fact, we probably should be looking to help. And the more help there is, the better chance someone will have quitting/recovery. Support also means real support, not a parent there because they have to and so they have disgust on their face, nope nope nope, that can make things worse.

I have a friend who's an addict and he's becoming impossible to talk to. Not about drugs, just about anything. He doesn't want any help, and he starts to live in his own reality. When we meet in a group of friends he doesn't listen to anyone. He can talk non-stop for hours until everybody around is tired from his gibberish. But he doesn't listen to anyone in a sense that feels very selfish. For example, when someone…

Have you considered he may be right?

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#126

Post by premium-komodo »

sharken wrote: post #55
newbie789 wrote: post #32

Former meth addict here. > The average crystal meth addict uses about 500 mg a day. And they snort it, which probably produces about double the peak plasma level as taking it orally. So they're getting the equivalent of 1000 mg oral amphetamine daily... 500mg sounds about right, but from my experience the most common route of administration (in the western United States at least) is smoking, not snorting. Because so…

Must admit the specifics of doing drugs is not that interesting to me, it's more interesting to ask the question: How does someone stop doing drugs?

I've heard that ibogaine can reset opiate addiction. I bet it's used to some positive effect with methamphetamine too.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#127

Post by varispeed »

cwkoss wrote: post #66

I think another major factor that this article didn't point out is drug purity - and what those specific impurities are. Particularly with drugs like meth, which can be manufactured clandestinely by people who don't understand chemistry well, there are a lot of intermediates or potential reaction byproducts which are orders of magnitude more cardiotoxic or otherwise more harmful than pure methamphetamine. And that's…

> Illegal drug manufacturers have a moderate economic pressure to increase purity, but - short of not immediately killing users and losing your customer base - they have little economic incentive to ensure that the impurities that remain in the final product are safe or inert.

From the time of alcohol prohibition, it was the government that was introducing contaminated batches that killed people. It was done for propaganda, to solidify the message "drugs are bad".

When I read articles about another teenager died of bad Ecstasy batch, this always comes to my mind. It always accompanies PSA saying that bad batches are circulating in the area etc. but somehow nobody else dies. Then when you read article almost always it turns out the drug wasn't actually Ecstasy, but that information is hidden deep in the article. It's disgusting how such tragedies are used for propaganda purposes and it is never investigated if it was actually government involvement in the killings.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#128

Post by anon9001 »

treeman79 wrote: post #40
bawolff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adderall is also a stimulant(?) The authors suggestion is it would cause the same effect if taken in the same dosage.

I was on Adderall 10mg a day. Worked as advertised. ADHD under control. Chronic fatigue fixed. Every portion of my body felt like it was being burned from the inside. I had to start tramadol to counter act the pain. It also upped cranial pressure. Causing a lot of secondary problems. This was made much worse as dosage went up. I had to stop it before downward spiral completely destroyed me. Vyvanse was a mild version…

I've never heard of anything like that before. I wonder if you'd get the same reaction from ritalin.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#129

Post by retrac »

anon9001 wrote: post #120
newbie789 wrote: post #32

Former meth addict here. > The average crystal meth addict uses about 500 mg a day. And they snort it, which probably produces about double the peak plasma level as taking it orally. So they're getting the equivalent of 1000 mg oral amphetamine daily... 500mg sounds about right, but from my experience the most common route of administration (in the western United States at least) is smoking, not snorting. Because so…

Thanks for sharing. A lot of people on this board have experience with prescription stimulants. How would you say the experience of "doing meth" differs from taking amphetamine orally? Was a typical experience for you "smoke meth, study or write code all night"? I like prescription stimulants, but it's hard for me to imagine anyone wanting to take overdose-levels of stimulants for fun, so I'm probably missing somethi…

Meth taken orally at an equivalent dose is probably indistinguishable from racemic amphetamine subjectively. At least until you come down, anyway. Meth has a longer half-life.

Amphetamine smoked would be the same too, nearly. Maybe slightly slower onset. Negligible difference compared to that provided by smoking versus oral. It's the speed of the come up. The most euphoric part when one takes stimulants orally is usually the first few hours. When rapidly administered, that hits instantly and with full effect and then fades pretty quickly. (So you are very inclined to take another dose an hour or two later.)

My advice? You probably don't want to experience it. I've missed it since the first and second and only times I smoked. Realizing I was strongly craving a drug I had used twice is why I got out of that game. Some experiences cannot be unexperienced. There's nothing much interesting about that state, psychologically or intellectually. It's about what you think it might be if you have some experience with stimulants. Just all at once and very hard and you will be awake for two days after.

Meth is simply dirty. More neurotoxic than amphetamine and lasts too long. In a perfect world, we'd probably move all the meth addicts onto a supply of Dexedrine. Even if they're high as kites at least their brains will rot more slowly.

Re: Drug users use a lot of drugs

#130

Post by rosetremiere »

forgingahead wrote: post #107
emptysongglass wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel bad for the guy who got ostracized by you and your entire friend group because he occasionally did speed and admitted to it. I understand your situation but I also think at some point you need to be able to stand on your own two feet without taking such drastic measures. Strength is both being able to walk away and then to say no in the face of temptation. I say this as someone who abused drugs when I was youn…

Cutting out toxic influences is generally a good thing for most people. In OP's case, temptation of drug use and the risk of backsliding was too much, so yes, important and excellent that they cut out that person.

I think the main criticism in GP was that the friend's group also cut ties, not just the person being put "at risk" by such a friendship. Also, "toxic influence" makes it seem like the friend was, by themself, toxic, while it looks rather than this was a "dangerous relation" (big difference imo).
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