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What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

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Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#151

Post by turminal »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #110
hyperhopper wrote: post #62

> In a swipe at Tesla, he said that by charging hourly fees, VW would make autonomous driving more accessible than “a car with a five-digit surcharge.” This is completely disingenuous at best, and malicious at worst. This is a perfect example of the boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness [1]. This is just taking advantage of the poor-middle class' inability to pay a larger upfront cost, to extort them for more over…

> This is 100% a way to extract more money from consumers, especially non financially stable consumers, while lying to all of our faces Isn't this hyperbolic? I split time between at least two cities. Being able to pay as I go represents a real saving in cost, time and attention. Sometimes buying is better than renting. But sometimes there are economies of centralization. AWS isn't a scam on companies too poor to buy…

>AWS isn't a scam on companies too poor to buy servers.

Do the math and see how using AWS just doesn't make sense at the scale most companies operate.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#152

Post by frzj »

milchek wrote: post #87
hyperhopper wrote: post #62

> In a swipe at Tesla, he said that by charging hourly fees, VW would make autonomous driving more accessible than “a car with a five-digit surcharge.” This is completely disingenuous at best, and malicious at worst. This is a perfect example of the boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness [1]. This is just taking advantage of the poor-middle class' inability to pay a larger upfront cost, to extort them for more over…

Well said, and I think the idea that in the future people will own less and rent more is discussed quite often. In the tech space this has been true for some time, hell, I still remember buying a version of Adobe Master Suite and later lamenting at the switch to subscription model. I used to be quite negative about of going further down this path, but the way I see it now, what choice do we have in the future? The wo…

In the contrary. Somebody always owns it, at least in our economic system. If I had bought/leased a new iPhone I couldn't have bought as many Apple shares during the dip last year. And I could afford to buy during a pandemic because I have no rent to pay. You can't build wealth by wasting money, at least in europe, where there are no Californian companies that pay 100k a year.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#153

Post by Marciplan »

hughrr wrote: post #89
tempestn wrote: post #49

Having finally had a chance to test-"drive" an advanced autopilot Tesla last weekend, I can confidently say at the current level of that tech I would pay less than nothing. At best (cruising down a well-marked highway) it was only slightly worse than useless, taking a different line in the lane than I considered optimal, leaving me feeling a background level of apprehension. From there it ranged through frustrating,…

So much this. I hope I don't stand on too many toes here. Actually I don't care. My father has a self driving enabled Tesla Model S which he paid a hell of a lot of money for that he doesn't have as he's in his 70s, living entirely off the remains of the house he just sold. He's convinced it'll be any day now that he gets full self driving and that it'll change the world. He tells me he loves the car and phones me da…

Genuinely curious: why haven’t you helped him try to get these bugs and issues resolved?

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#154

Post by zx2391 »

VW ships 3M cars per year, let's say a car is used 1h per day. Given all cars are used in this subscription model, we look at $765M MRR, or almost $10B per year, which is already about 10% of their current revenue.

Given that autonomous vehicles do not suck time out of the user's budget, they might even be used more. At 3h/day, we already at $30B yearly revenue - almost half of what they made in 2020.

And software has marginal costs, so once you got over the investment (they recruit developers extremely heavily in Germany right now), you are looking at a more than comfortable income stream.

Not sure about you, but I literally see the level of dopamine floating on the VW management floors right now.

That said, I hope I never need a personal car in my life.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#155

Post by croon »

ec109685 wrote: post #91
hughrr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much this. I hope I don't stand on too many toes here. Actually I don't care. My father has a self driving enabled Tesla Model S which he paid a hell of a lot of money for that he doesn't have as he's in his 70s, living entirely off the remains of the house he just sold. He's convinced it'll be any day now that he gets full self driving and that it'll change the world. He tells me he loves the car and phones me da…

Obviously you know your father best, but it at least seems from your words it makes him happy. As someone with similar car, you get to know it’s quirks and use it when it adds value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#156

Post by hughrr »

Marciplan wrote: post #153
hughrr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much this. I hope I don't stand on too many toes here. Actually I don't care. My father has a self driving enabled Tesla Model S which he paid a hell of a lot of money for that he doesn't have as he's in his 70s, living entirely off the remains of the house he just sold. He's convinced it'll be any day now that he gets full self driving and that it'll change the world. He tells me he loves the car and phones me da…

Genuinely curious: why haven’t you helped him try to get these bugs and issues resolved?

He’s a qualified engineer and ran a software company for 30 years. He knows his shit already so I don’t need to.

But fundamentally the issues are flawed analysis rather than defective implementation.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#157

Post by adrianN »

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #11

This would be ideal for myself. I spend $1500/year on insurance and about $1000 in gas on a car I barely ever drive. I am slow to get ready and leave the house as well. If this thing could just show up at my doorstep and drive me to the grocery store and back every couple of weeks for a few dollars that would be incredible! Plus I don't have to make smalltalk with a driver, bonus! Not to mention the space I would sav…

You could probably order your groceries for a couple of dollars.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#158

Post by jbverschoor »

hyperhopper wrote: post #62

> In a swipe at Tesla, he said that by charging hourly fees, VW would make autonomous driving more accessible than “a car with a five-digit surcharge.” This is completely disingenuous at best, and malicious at worst. This is a perfect example of the boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness [1]. This is just taking advantage of the poor-middle class' inability to pay a larger upfront cost, to extort them for more over…

So a car is free to operate?

No fuel/electricity

No road tax

No insurance

No maintenance

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#159

Post by estaseuropano »

hyperhopper wrote: post #62

> In a swipe at Tesla, he said that by charging hourly fees, VW would make autonomous driving more accessible than “a car with a five-digit surcharge.” This is completely disingenuous at best, and malicious at worst. This is a perfect example of the boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness [1]. This is just taking advantage of the poor-middle class' inability to pay a larger upfront cost, to extort them for more over…

Locally a new ID.4 costs somewhere around €40-60k. Does VW really want me to spend €40k+ on a car, pay all maintenance, all insurance, all electricity, storage/parking, charging infrastructure, etc and then still pay 8€ per hour to use a main feature of the car? If I do a 5h drive it would be cheaper to pay the train instead of taking the car I have bought. Absolutely mad.

Re: What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour

#160

Post by toast0 »

gitanovic wrote: post #113
mlyle wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, to me it looks pretty good. And there's reason to believe it'd be better on freeways. I'd definitely pay a few bucks per hour for my car to drive me to Southern California while I read a book.

What I don't understand is: why don't you take a train instead? I have never been to US, but whenever I hear about self driving cars I think: why don't people just use public transport if they don't want to drive?

The US has a great rail system if you're a container or other freight that is easily put in a rail car, and you don't mind travelling at low speed and making a fair number of stops and not having any specific date and time of arrival.

It has a terrible rail system if you're a passenger. Connectivity is weak, and even if you have a direct route, almost all the rails are owned by freight lines, so freight traffic gets priority and schedules are rarely met. If you have to make a connection, good luck. There's some exceptional routes in the north eastern US, where there's a lot of rail and some of it is passenger exclusive.

The question is more likely to be flying vs driving than take a train vs driving, because a train will nearly always take longer and be less convenient.

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