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Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

medrxiv.org

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Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#221

Post by jeswin »

BurningFrog wrote: post #112
Taniwha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However there already exist real people in the world who have had Covid twice, and who reportedly have had a much tougher time the second time around. This study helps us put some bounds on how many people this might happen to (assuming there are no mutations to the virus) but it doesn't rule it out completely, because of the prior existence proofs

> However there already exist real people in the world who have had Covid twice Sure, but these things are rare enough that it can be only people with a wonky immune system or some other exotic condition.

From a family member who works with Covid response (in India, where you have a large enough sample size), repeat infections are less likely and tend to be mild. But they are neither rare nor limited to people with exotic conditions.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#222

Post by ping_pong »

daenz wrote: post #128

Why is it that so many people seem to be biased against evidence that our immune systems do a pretty good job? It's as if they want the vaccine to be the only thing that helps stop COVID.

Because the issue has turned into a political and morality issue now.

In the US, over 40% of Democrats think that hospitalization rates for COVID are 50% or higher, and 28% of Democrats tink that hospitalization from COVID is 20-49%. It's really 1-5%.So the vast majority of Democrats think that COVID is over an order of magnitude worse than it actually is. So people who don't want to take the vaccine because they are concerned about taking a new medication or they already have been infected and don't need it, are now "immoral right wing Trumpists".

I read on the Bay Area subreddit how someone was called a 'Republican' for not wearing a mask outside, even though the mandate now is that you don't need to wear a mask outside if you're vaccinated and not in a large group of people.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#223

Post by ping_pong »

jquery wrote: post #166
daenz wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not conflict with being unbiased towards evidence that our immune systems are effective against covid.

As long as the initial infection didn’t kill or incapacitate you. Edit: most bubonic plague infections didn’t kill so I don’t know what the point of “most people survive” is. The problem is that some don’t.

The Black Death, if that's what you're talking about, killed about 2/3 of all Europeans.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#224

Post by ping_pong »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #127
briefcomment wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most authorities are downplaying natural immunity, despite evidence like this. The more widely this spreads, the more people will realize it's ok to rely on natural immunity, and to not blanket demonize those who are unvaccinated.

> to not blanket demonize those who are unvaccinated. Well, I'm currently in quarantine from my 4 month old and wife because an acquaintance refused to get vaccinated. "young people don't die from COVID" type mentality. I attended my brother's bachelor party - of which we all thought everyone was vaccinated. Turns out this person, not only refused to get vaccinated - but had COVID exposure and still decided to attend…

Why are you quarantined if you got vaccinated?

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#225

Post by ping_pong »

cstejerean wrote: post #156
bobthechef wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "young people don't die from COVID" type mentality. What mentality is this? It is well known that young people are at extremely low risk of dying, even more so than the average person. > He told us the day after being in close contact for 3 days, that he tested positive and had symptoms during our contact with him. The problem wasn't that your acquaintance refused the vaccine. The problem is that he didn't stay hom…

> There's also evidence that asymptomatic people don't spread COVID. This would mean that if they don't have symptoms, you won't get it, and if they do and they're like most people, they'll stay home which means no transmission. We wouldn’t be in the middle of a pandemic if this were true.

There a difference between asymptomatic and presymptomatic.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#226

Post by paedubucher »

np_tedious wrote: post #11

I did have covid (not diagnosed while active but shown in antibody test), and I got vaccinated significantly later. This was not driven by belief in medical need, but by social/rules need. You get no "points" for being recovered like you do for a proof of vaccination.

Getting a vaccination just for "the points" looks like a bad idea to me, because "the health" should be the only point to be considered.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#227

Post by Reason077 »

ping_pong wrote: post #216
Reason077 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the duration of the study? I’m convinced I had Covid twice, in March 2020 and again in December 2020. So in my case, “natural” immunity did not last 9 months. (Although there were presumably different Covid variants at play here. I’m in London where the “Kent” variant was dominant in the December peak) Only the second time was confirmed by PCR test (no testing available in March 2020), but symptoms and progr…

A lot of people were convinced they had COVID in Jan-March 2020. You're not the only one. Without a test though, it's impossible to say because the symptoms of mild COVID, which it sounds like you had, overlap a very large number of other diseases. There was also a very bad flu going around in early 2020 that a lot of people had caught so you probably had that.

I think if you've had Covid, you'd disagree that its symptoms are similar to other common diseases. It feels quite different from any cold/flu I've ever had - unlike most flus I've experienced, there was no bronchitis, no throat pain, no sinus congestion, only a mild intermittent cough, little snot/phlem, etc.

But it has some distinct features: high fever/temperature which lasts < 24 hours, changes in taste (foods which I normally enjoy tasting bitter and disgusting, toothpaste tasting like bitter chemicals, etc), severe fatigue, mild-to-moderate nausea, shortness of breath, and muscle and joint pains. Some of these symptoms lingered for quite a few weeks.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#228

Post by ping_pong »

nradov wrote: post #187
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love to see real numbers of how many people have been infected, but I have no idea how you would get them. Do you have any suggestions?

The most accurate approach would be to do repeated blood tests of a large nationwide study population looking at both antibodies and memory T cells. The CDC really should have been doing that nationwide for the past year.

How can you do that with over 50% of the population fully vaccinated?

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#229

Post by f6v »

daenz wrote: post #128

Why is it that so many people seem to be biased against evidence that our immune systems do a pretty good job? It's as if they want the vaccine to be the only thing that helps stop COVID.

> It's as if they want the vaccine to be the only thing that helps stop COVID

Our immune system didn't evolve to cope with living in incredibly tight spaces surrounded by millions of people. Our immune system also isn't good at dealing with infections as we age: it's simply unnatural to survive past 70. We need to keep vaccinating, to create a collective immunity that protects the vulnerable.

Re: Evaluating necessity of Covid-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

#230

Post by rimliu »

cstejerean wrote: post #156
bobthechef wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "young people don't die from COVID" type mentality. What mentality is this? It is well known that young people are at extremely low risk of dying, even more so than the average person. > He told us the day after being in close contact for 3 days, that he tested positive and had symptoms during our contact with him. The problem wasn't that your acquaintance refused the vaccine. The problem is that he didn't stay hom…

> There's also evidence that asymptomatic people don't spread COVID. This would mean that if they don't have symptoms, you won't get it, and if they do and they're like most people, they'll stay home which means no transmission. We wouldn’t be in the middle of a pandemic if this were true.

Why so? Or are you mixing up asymptomatic with presymptomatic, as many do? It is clear that latter do indeed play a big role in spreading infection, but the science is not so clear on the former. Likely that asymptomatic do not spread it.
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