30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release) • Hacker News Board

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#21

Post by pnathan » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 3:41 PM UTC

Someone called Humourisok posted this, but it is dead for some reason. I thought it was a good idea, so repost:

----

Humourisok 20 minutes ago | link [dead]

from the tech point of view you have an open platform to share and annotate scanned docs. Sort of "web 2.0 Sharepoint". The niche that I see for such a service is legal. Lawyers can receive, annotate and remark on clients drafts for proposals, contracts etc. So it's something like Scribd+ or Docstoc+, for closed network of service provider & his/her clients, where a lot of paperwork is required. Legal services seems like the case. ----

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#22

Post by rokhayakebe » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 4:04 PM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #21

Someone called Humourisok posted this, but it is dead for some reason. I thought it was a good idea, so repost: ---- Humourisok 20 minutes ago | link [dead] from the tech point of view you have an open platform to share and annotate scanned docs. Sort of "web 2.0 Sharepoint". The niche that I see for such a service is legal. Lawyers can receive, annotate and remark on clients drafts for proposals, contracts etc. So i…

I probably thought about 3 ways he could use the tech and apply it to another problem. He should not quit, he should pivot his startup. I think there is something here. I for one, will download, install and play with the app.

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#23

Post by DanielBMarkham » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 4:06 PM UTC

Great article. I don't think we can repeat this enough:

Hard work != value. Clever code != value. Writing something hackers think is cool != value.

Sometimes I think the hardest part of startups is re-aligning our value system from what we've learned in school and society into something that's actually useful for startups.

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#24

Post by SoftwareMaven » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 4:13 PM UTC

There are a lot of times that it doesn't make sense to write any code before selling the product, but there are also times it does. The whole decision comes down to "Can I convince somebody this will work?"

The less likely your product is to be implementable, the more likely you will need code up front: 140 character mini blogs? Sure, fake it with photoshop. Real, Turing complete AI? You better have a prototype because nobody will believe you can do it.

Most startups tend to lean towards the former, but don't get sucked into that mentality if you lean towards the later. You'll be wasting your time.

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#25

Post by asanwal » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 4:14 PM UTC

timruffles wrote: post #13

teadrinker wrote: post #8

I'd argue the main reason it failed was it was a bad idea. Their was no market for your product no matter how well you made it. Try not to take away execution lessons when the idea was poor. The execution was fine and if you'd have used a good idea you'd be doing reasonably well now. As an aside, does anyone have links to other startup postmortems?

Could be right there :) Inference from either failure or success is tricky. That said, I think "not knowing my customer" is still a sound lesson. If you know your customer, you'll know whether there is or isn't a market. Re post-mortems, should keep you going: http://www.chubbybrain.com/blog/startup-failure-post-mortem/ http://www.businessinsider.com/the-25-best-startup-fail-stor...

Another related one which analyzes 32 post-mortems and identifies the 20 recurring reasons for failure

http://www.chubbybrain.com/blog/top-reasons-startups-fail-an...

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#26

Post by timruffles » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 4:15 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #23

Great article. I don't think we can repeat this enough: Hard work != value. Clever code != value. Writing something hackers think is cool != value. Sometimes I think the hardest part of startups is re-aligning our value system from what we've learned in school and society into something that's actually useful for startups.

Very true. I've been thinking that although I started coding to make a business (tho I used to write QBasic games when I was 10 too), I developed a coder's value system.

I can't seem to keep in mind that code is a means to an end!

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#27

Post by SoftwareMaven » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 4:15 PM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #21

Someone called Humourisok posted this, but it is dead for some reason. I thought it was a good idea, so repost: ---- Humourisok 20 minutes ago | link [dead] from the tech point of view you have an open platform to share and annotate scanned docs. Sort of "web 2.0 Sharepoint". The niche that I see for such a service is legal. Lawyers can receive, annotate and remark on clients drafts for proposals, contracts etc. So i…

Maybe he deleted it because he decided to run with it...

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#28

Post by dholowiski » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 4:16 PM UTC

Interesting thought about phd students being a potentially untapped resource for startups. Anyone want to launch phdturk? The domain name is available (for now anyway)

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#29

Post by wisty » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 4:20 PM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #21

Someone called Humourisok posted this, but it is dead for some reason. I thought it was a good idea, so repost: ---- Humourisok 20 minutes ago | link [dead] from the tech point of view you have an open platform to share and annotate scanned docs. Sort of "web 2.0 Sharepoint". The niche that I see for such a service is legal. Lawyers can receive, annotate and remark on clients drafts for proposals, contracts etc. So i…

The problem is, these all have his original problem - clients who take years to decide anything.

B2B is difficult for startups, unless they already have good industry connections. On the other hand, consumers and small businesses are a little stingy.

Re: 30kloc and $0 revenue. Lessons from my failed startup (& code release)

#30

Post by SoftwareMaven » Sat, Jul 09, 2011, 4:21 PM UTC

wiredfool wrote: post #4

Sales cycles can be a real problem, especially if the average sales cycle is greater than your runway.

I used to work in the higher ed vertical. They have about the longest sales cycles imaginable because so much of every decision is committee led (speaking at the campus level; department sales are a different story). You also can never expect them to just make a decision. If you are selling to the entire campus, you need salespeople who understand the process to work you through it.

My advice to startups in that vertical: make it a department SaaS sale. You avoid central IT and it's committee process hell. If you really want the whole campus, start with a few departments, make them happy, then work your way up.