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iOS 15 Humane

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Re: iOS 15 Humane

#91

Post by fartcannon »

creata wrote: post #84
camillomiller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another peak self-absorbed Hacker News comment, in which we learn that curiosity only means tinkering with devices, learning how they work to the bits, plus some random Linux thrown in. This comment is ignoring that a device that does all that without you having to worry about how it works is a tool way more powerful than one in which you need to at least know how to build everything from scratch with an enormous lea…

This has to be the least charitable reading of Crazyontap's comment. Couldn't you have just inserted the implied: > I was just talking to a friend the other day on how badly Apple and Google are trying their best to kill curiosity and creativity [with regard to the computer they're using]. Also: > So please, enough with this narrative, it’s really outdated and based on such a limited world view. You'll have to explai…

From the tone, I believe they are intentionally trolling for reactions. It is probably best not to feed them.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#93

Post by khazhoux »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #79
camillomiller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another peak self-absorbed Hacker News comment, in which we learn that curiosity only means tinkering with devices, learning how they work to the bits, plus some random Linux thrown in. This comment is ignoring that a device that does all that without you having to worry about how it works is a tool way more powerful than one in which you need to at least know how to build everything from scratch with an enormous lea…

I don’t know. Why can’t we have both? Why can’t we have devices that permit “mucking about” but also when configured appropriately allow us to ignore the low level details and muck about with higher level stuff? They don’t have to be mutually exclusive despite “bt whole home wifi app has detected this is a jailbroken device and for your safety will not run”. It’s my wifi, it’s my phone!

You literally have both, and more.

Right now, I have a nearly uncrackable walled-garden iphone on my desk. And a mac laptop running XCode (learning about Metal programming), and at the same time running an Amiga emulator (tinkering with 68k assembly), and a windows gaming laptop next to it, and a breadboard on the floor with a pile of resistors and capacitors and transistors.

So what's the problem again?

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#94

Post by [deleted] »

camillomiller wrote: post #68
Crazyontap wrote: post #49

Even though this article is sarcastic(?) I can't help but get genuinely angry at these trillion dollar companies thinking they know what is better for us and trying to control and police everything. This is even worse than govt censoring porn and cuss-words back in the day thinking they know what is moral for the society. I was just talking to a friend the other day on how badly Apple and Google are trying their best…

Another peak self-absorbed Hacker News comment, in which we learn that curiosity only means tinkering with devices, learning how they work to the bits, plus some random Linux thrown in. This comment is ignoring that a device that does all that without you having to worry about how it works is a tool way more powerful than one in which you need to at least know how to build everything from scratch with an enormous lea…

[deleted]

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#95

Post by vladvasiliu »

BluSyn wrote: post #83
icelancer wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reason the machine can't do everything you said and everything the parent said.

There are fundamental engineering trade-offs here. The amount of effort required to secure a device AND make it accessible to "tinkerers" would be an effort worthy of an MIT research lab. It's not trivial, and a huge security risk to satisfy 0.01% of the user base. Especially when such users will likely just buy an open source device anyways. Seems like a huge waste of effort to me.

I'm not overly familiar with the low-level details of iPhones and Android phones, but it's not clear to me why it would be such a big effort to allow one to install whatever OS they like on an iPhone.

Maybe display a big, scary "unofficial OS, you're on your own, don't bother us if your iPhone becomes unusable". Maybe have one jump through some hoops, like getting an "approval" code by signing some mile-long EULA on the iCloud account stating you forego any software-related warranty / support.

This should be enough to deter "regular users" from messing with their phones, and Apple wouldn't have to go to any length to guarantee that a "restored" device isn't compromised. Kind of like the KNOX thing on Samsung phones used to work.

And this actually seems to be possible, since people are having success with running Linux, a non-apple sanctioned OS, on the M1 Macs, which have the secure enclave, etc. My understanding is that whatever issues they are experiencing are related to hardware support.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#96

Post by tonyedgecombe »

Crazyontap wrote: post #49

Even though this article is sarcastic(?) I can't help but get genuinely angry at these trillion dollar companies thinking they know what is better for us and trying to control and police everything. This is even worse than govt censoring porn and cuss-words back in the day thinking they know what is moral for the society. I was just talking to a friend the other day on how badly Apple and Google are trying their best…

>I mean when I first got my 286 the machine was just full of possibilities.

When I got my first 286 very little was available to me because it all had a cost. Want to learn C then get your wallet out to buy a C compiler. Want to learn Pascal then get your wallet out for Turbo Pascal . Want to learn UNIX, well hard lines, that stuff is only available in ivory towers.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#97

Post by csande17 »

BluSyn wrote: post #83
icelancer wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reason the machine can't do everything you said and everything the parent said.

There are fundamental engineering trade-offs here. The amount of effort required to secure a device AND make it accessible to "tinkerers" would be an effort worthy of an MIT research lab. It's not trivial, and a huge security risk to satisfy 0.01% of the user base. Especially when such users will likely just buy an open source device anyways. Seems like a huge waste of effort to me.

The engineering effort is entirely surmountable; we already have a pretty decent solution in Chrome OS's Developer Mode.

"Security" has become the excuse big companies use for everything they foist on users. Better update to that new OS version that ruins the user interface -- it comes with security patches! Better make sure you can't play any games that aren't approved by Apple -- it's the only way to make iPhones secure! Better centralize the entire Internet so it all depends on four or five giant corporations to run -- they're the only ones who can be trusted to implement security!

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#98

Post by irrational »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #79
camillomiller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another peak self-absorbed Hacker News comment, in which we learn that curiosity only means tinkering with devices, learning how they work to the bits, plus some random Linux thrown in. This comment is ignoring that a device that does all that without you having to worry about how it works is a tool way more powerful than one in which you need to at least know how to build everything from scratch with an enormous lea…

I don’t know. Why can’t we have both? Why can’t we have devices that permit “mucking about” but also when configured appropriately allow us to ignore the low level details and muck about with higher level stuff? They don’t have to be mutually exclusive despite “bt whole home wifi app has detected this is a jailbroken device and for your safety will not run”. It’s my wifi, it’s my phone!

You can? There are tons of kits and circuit boards and parts and everything electronic imaginable available for quick delivery right now. Back in the day we had Radio Shack, but it couldn’t hold a candle to all the circuit boards and electronic components available today. It’s an embarrassment of riches.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#99

Post by vladvasiliu »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #74
camillomiller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another peak self-absorbed Hacker News comment, in which we learn that curiosity only means tinkering with devices, learning how they work to the bits, plus some random Linux thrown in. This comment is ignoring that a device that does all that without you having to worry about how it works is a tool way more powerful than one in which you need to at least know how to build everything from scratch with an enormous lea…

You missed his point. BigTech is trying to make open computer hardware and software illegal, because "security". That is a loss for everyone, even if tinkering with computers is not your hobby.

> BigTech is trying to make open computer hardware and software illegal, because "security".

I wonder what they stand to gain from this, since they wouldn't bother if there wasn't a benefit.

Android I can possibly understand, what with Google being an ad-company and expecting to track users. But Apple doesn't seem to be doing that all that much anymore.

For the tractor situation, John Deere & friends expect to capture the business of independent repair shops, so there's a gain in their locking down the devices.

If I buy an iPhone to run myOS on it, how's this a loss to Apple? Especially since they don't charge for IOS updates, and they also support their phones for a long time, so if I don't buy a new iPhone every year it's not because I'm running some custom OS. My iPhone 7 still has all the latest updates and I haven't paid Apple one cent ever since I bought it used more than four years ago.

Re: iOS 15 Humane

#100

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #99
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed his point. BigTech is trying to make open computer hardware and software illegal, because "security". That is a loss for everyone, even if tinkering with computers is not your hobby.

> BigTech is trying to make open computer hardware and software illegal, because "security". I wonder what they stand to gain from this, since they wouldn't bother if there wasn't a benefit. Android I can possibly understand, what with Google being an ad-company and expecting to track users. But Apple doesn't seem to be doing that all that much anymore. For the tractor situation, John Deere & friends expect to captur…

Simple - close the door to any possible competition or disruption in the future.

A future with only one or two computing monopolies is a desired end state for history to BigTech.

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