Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 593 posts

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#441

Post by brailsafe »

carabiner wrote: post #41

> We have creators who are unemployed from the pandemic. We have creators who need to pay rent, to pay tuition, to pay medical expenses, and they need their income to survive. Apple's 30% directly threatens their livelihoods. Does anyone find this reasoning disingenuous? "Will you think of the [children or other unprivileged group]?" Is Apple morally obligated to give money to people with harder lives? It weakens her…

Yes, I find it disingenuous. It's bullshit and manipulative. I don't feel like Fanhouse is the second coming of Jesus.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#442

Post by hnick »

marsdepinski wrote: post #275
amelius wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the argument is that they (1) host the software in the cloud which costs them money, and (2) they review software for e.g. security issues which costs them money. Anyway, the EU is coming for them: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/euro... > The Digital Markets Act (DMA) establishes a set of narrowly defined objective criteria for qualifying a large online platform as a so-called “gatek…

Missing the point they the only way to install apps on an IPhone is the app store. If you had choice to freely download apps from the internet, this would not be a monopoly abuse issue. Then sure charge on the app store whatever you want, allow competing so stores that also offer reviewed software.

I think what you are saying is probably correct, but remember what happened to MS and IE. IE was never forced, and other options weren't blocked. The issue was bundling and inability to uninstall due to tight coupling. Both of those would apply to iOS though the details and current political landscape would probably give them a pass.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#443

Post by fomine3 »

defaultname wrote: post #302
smnrchrds wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix was able to do this because Apple carved out an exception for them by gerrymandering the rules so Netflix could do this. They did that because Netflix was powerful enough. Hey tried to do a similar thing, but Apple was having none of it. They were going to force them to pay them 30%, because they were not powerful enough. When the social media storm made them more powerful, Apple acquiesced.

Apple has always had clear exceptions for video, audio, magazine and newspaper apps. "3.1.3(a) “Reader” Apps: Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or content subscriptions (specifically: magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, and video). Reader apps may offer account creation for free tiers, and account management functionality for existing customers." It isn't because Netflix or Amazon a…

It's just a arbitrary rule comfortable for Apple.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#444

Post by heavyset_go »

chrisseaton wrote: post #418
ALittleLight wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that in order to create a competitive app store the notional competitor would have to create an entire hardware ecosystem to rival Apple. Apple is tying the sale of products together (their phone hardware with the app store software) in order to profit from their app store and they prohibit the app stores of competitors. This is the definition of anti-competitive monopoly[1]. You also write that Apple is…

> this is the definition of anti-competitive monopoly[1] Keep reading your own link. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a... > Courts look at the firm's market share, but typically do not find monopoly power if the firm (or a group of firms acting in concert) has less than 50 percent of the sales of a particular product or service within a certain geographic area. Apple has less than a 50% mar…

Apple and Google dominate the mobile OS market with iOS being on 60% of devices in the US, and 40% with Android. Apple is responsible for 100% more sales in the mobile app distribution market compared to Google, but together they're responsible for over 99% of all mobile app sales in the US.

Read the definition you quoted from the FTC. Apple and Google are a group of two firms with monopoly positions in the mobile OS market and the mobile app distribution market. Google is even forcing developers to use their payment service on the Play Store and to give them a 30% cut[1] of all app sales to match Apple.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/28/google-to-enforce-30percent-...

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#445

Post by avereveard »

mkishi wrote: post #273
amelius wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the argument is that they (1) host the software in the cloud which costs them money, and (2) they review software for e.g. security issues which costs them money. Anyway, the EU is coming for them: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/euro... > The Digital Markets Act (DMA) establishes a set of narrowly defined objective criteria for qualifying a large online platform as a so-called “gatek…

It does cost them money, but I can't wrap my mind on why that's not subsidized by the rest of the Apple machine. Didn't customers pay a premium for Apple hardware because of the unified ecosystem and superior security to begin with? And developers also pay a premium to be on the App Store ($99+30%) because it costs them money to create the infrastructure and ensure safety? I'm pretty ignorant on the whole situation,…

Then people should start explaining how free they are from regional dealerships.

Apple 30% cut is for developer access to the Apple cultivated and exclusive selection of customers.

They built the platform, infrastructure, distribution channel and trust of the users, creating a market where there was none.

One can argue that a 30% margin may be too fat, but considering other industry margin and that Apple consolidates in that margin logistic, distributionship and dealership I haven't yet seen a convincing case comparing it fairly to other industries

But still, exclusive distribution rights are neither unheard of nor have scores of people up in arms about them restriction people from of choice, so why is Apple singled out and targeted?

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#446

Post by sinuhe69 »

manigandham wrote: post #396
tpmoney wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how does Apple limit anyone by offering their choice? Anyone who wants a phone environment where you can install any app and app store you want merely needs to buy and Android phone instead of an iPhone. And anyone who wants a phone environment where developers are far more restricted and are required to behave in certain ways can buy an iPhone instead of an Android. Seems to me everyone wins.

Apple limits everyone by not offering the choice in how their purchased hardware installs and runs their chosen software. We really must steer away from this dystopian view of "choice" amongst trillion-dollar megacorps that control half of the ecosystem. Yes, there should be different rules when they get that big, like serving the user first.

Everyone who served customers first (whoever they are), ended up in the dustbin of history. Apple became so big exactly because they made a right choice between serving customers and serving their self-interest, speaks profit and growth. The purchase and continue support of billions Apple’s customers underline the correctness of Apple’s choice and strategy. It’s also remarkable that not the Apple’s customers who have sued the company but the third players who want to use the Apple’s ecosystem to make their own profit (and probably serving their customers). Unfortunately, when they signed their developers contracts, they have already agreed to the T&C of the App Store and now they pretend they don’t know it, didn’t agree with it.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#447

Post by fomine3 »

themacguffinman wrote: post #357
stemlord wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about webm right?

There's some other examples too: - Automatically erasing all script-writeable storage after 7 days, crippling local PWAs and preventing them from competing with native apps - dragging their feet on Service Worker support for ages, another PWA issue - blocking the standardization of numerous web hardware APIs: - Web Bluetooth - Web MIDI API - Magnetometer API - Web NFC API - Device Memory API - Network Information API…

Restricting local storage features for "Privacy" looks like sly strategy by Apple.

Some new APIs proposed by Google is bad, so declining by Apple is fair. Mozilla also decline some APIs.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#448

Post by tshaddox »

twostorytower wrote: post #146
tshaddox wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure Netflix and other streaming services give 30% to Apple if you buy the subscription through Apple. Don’t they?

They don't allow you to sign up in the app. You have to sign-up and subscribe via the web. App is login only.

Indeed, I stand corrected. I would swear that they previously allowed you to subscribe with an in-app purchase. Disney+ does still offer an Apple in-app subscription.

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#449

Post by ALittleLight »

chrisseaton wrote: post #418
ALittleLight wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that in order to create a competitive app store the notional competitor would have to create an entire hardware ecosystem to rival Apple. Apple is tying the sale of products together (their phone hardware with the app store software) in order to profit from their app store and they prohibit the app stores of competitors. This is the definition of anti-competitive monopoly[1]. You also write that Apple is…

> this is the definition of anti-competitive monopoly[1] Keep reading your own link. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a... > Courts look at the firm's market share, but typically do not find monopoly power if the firm (or a group of firms acting in concert) has less than 50 percent of the sales of a particular product or service within a certain geographic area. Apple has less than a 50% mar…

Apple has more than 50% market share in the US[1]. The FTC is meant to protect American consumers, so the fact that Apple has a majority of market share in the US and is abusing their monopoly position in the US is relevant. The fact that Android leads iOS worldwide is less relevant.

1 - https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/north-amer...

Re: Apple is threatening to remove Fanhouse unless they give 30% of creator earning

#450

Post by wernercd »

heavyset_go wrote: post #424
wernercd wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and Google doesn't ban use of other payment processors or have restrictions on "you can sell elsewhere for less"

> and Google doesn't ban use of other payment processors They certainly do on the Play Store. Developers have until September of this year to comply with Google's rule to take 30% of sales and use its payment system[1] in their apps. It's clearly more price fixing on the part of the Apple and Google mobile app distribution and payments cartel. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/28/google-to-enforce-30percent-...

I hadn't heard that. Thanks for the new info. They'd be another store I'd avoid like the plague if I was selling stuff.

if this isn't collusion and racketeering, then what is?

Post reply on HN