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Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

cnbc.com

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Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#121

Post by ipaddr »

ryandrake wrote: post #64
dheera wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big problem with hybrid is that you're forced to live in the same locality as the office, and most companies aren't subsidizing rent, but at the same time you need a decent office setup at home to be effective and that isn't cheap. I moved apartments (from a studio to a 1-bedroom) at the start of COVID because it was basically impossible to work out of my bay area studio for a full day. I didn't even have a desk, b…

My worry is: let’s say my employer finally gives in and lets me work full time remote. Great! I can finally move to the Nevada desert or somewhere with low cost of living. I will likely take a modest salary reduction. Still wonderful! What happens 3 years later when there is new leadership or something and they pull a Marissa Mayer and declare remote work “bad” again, and recalls everyone to the headquarters? Now I’m…

If Marissa is in charge you will be looking for new work soon enough regardless if they move.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#123

Post by rejectedandsad »

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #31
rejectedandsad wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, in terms of software working at Apple is impressive for the fact that their products are luxuries, not for any real technical reasons. Hardware is totally different though

You don't think Apple has technical challenges in their software? That's really interesting to hear. I worked on software there for five years and it was some of the most interesting work I've been a part of. What do you consider impressive in software?

Not to the same extent as their hardware, which is best-in-the-industry as the A-series and M1 have proved.

This is some what Ive heard based on the teams in IS&T, and the fact that most of the most technically challenging software products, like the SDKs, OS, system apps effectively seem to have a 1 year release cycle.

Then again the place I work isn’t considered impressive in software at all so…

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#124

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #69
wintermutestwin wrote: post #35

The bloomberg article mentions potential CoL adjustments: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-09/facebook-... It is interesting that the Slashdot crowd was fairly universal in panning the idea of paying people less if they lived in a low cost area. In my 17 years as a designated "teleworker" at a SV megacorp, they adjusted compensation ratios. This meant that they didn't reduce my salary when I moved from…

I don't understand this take at all, it's effectively saying that your pay should be driven by your needs as opposed to the value you create. I can see companies deciding that in-person value is different than remote, but where you are remotely doesn't matter. Especially in the same timezone. Working remotely from Kentucky vs Brooklyn makes no difference to the company, so why should they pay them differently? Do you…

The primary factor that defines compensation is competition; the market-clearing wage is a supply/demand thing - ask yourself whether junior developer productivity is that much higher now than a few years ago despite soaring pay.

Your value-added just represents a ceiling on how much its rational to pay you in some sort of vague career-adjusted terms; the vast majority of people don't even have jobs where that can be measured. Even those where it looks simple (say, sales) are actually much harder than you'd think.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#125

Post by rejectedandsad »

qaq wrote: post #51
rejectedandsad wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, in terms of software working at Apple is impressive for the fact that their products are luxuries, not for any real technical reasons. Hardware is totally different though

Swift, FoundationDB ...

Swift is nice but there are still too many holes that need to be filled for general purpose use.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#126

Post by darth_avocado »

It’s interesting, because I’m currently interviewing with them and I definitely am hearing a lot of expectations of coming to the office at least a couple days a week. Which is pretty much in line with what the expectations were pre pandemic.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#127

Post by wly_cdgr »

ditonal wrote: post #61
JulianMorrison wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd think the obvious rejoinder to that approach is, if they want to work remotely, they take the rough with the smooth. No, they are not going to be as plugged into casual office conversations. Their choice.

That's not what's happening in reality though. I gave you two notable examples but I know of a few more as well. This isn't hypothetical, many companies are actively seeking to destroy their in-person culture (outside of company offsite events). Of course, since every corporate move has to have a feel good PR element to it these days, the buzzword to justify this direction is equity/equality, and that since DEI candi…

Helpful insight

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#128

Post by ipaddr »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #79
someelephant wrote: post #28

Let's be real. The loser here is middle managers. Not all of them. Just the ones who feed off of the high they get from having control over the office environment.

I don't know if that's me, but I'm a engineering manager that focuses on personal relationships and remote has made my job harder and take way more energy. High fidelity communication is hard or impossible and the alternatives frankly, suck. I don't _think_ I get high from controlling an office environment (not sure what that means) but I sure miss white boards and in-person collaboration.

You know one way and doing anything different is difficult. It also will challenge you and make you a better manager and person. Do you really need a crutch like the white board? Do you really need that employee right beside you? Take all of that away and you can still be a good manager.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#129

Post by Buttons840 »

munk-a wrote: post #94
majormajor wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming this is facetious, but... high performers are potentially big winners in a remote world. Let's say someone gets 5x the person next to them done. Very few companies will pay them 5x. Maybe double... But if they can manage their time well enough to get X done in some fraction of the time, they could realistically do two or three full time jobs worth of "normal" work, and increase their pay - and income sec…

It's an interesting point but I think that we're honestly vastly overestimating how highly performing high performers can be - 5x is a pretty reasonable number to me for an extreme skill gap including an experience gap but ruling out the most junior folks. We've already got a wage spread that more than covers 5x with most folks fresh out of college looking at 50k/annual if they're outside of SV and some devs within S…

A 10x can't be a 1x in 10 places. Maintaining 10x the average productivity requires being in harmony with the work environment, the environment makes the 10x engineer as much as he makes himself, you can't do that while working 10 jobs.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#130

Post by mustafa_pasi »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #79
someelephant wrote: post #28

Let's be real. The loser here is middle managers. Not all of them. Just the ones who feed off of the high they get from having control over the office environment.

I don't know if that's me, but I'm a engineering manager that focuses on personal relationships and remote has made my job harder and take way more energy. High fidelity communication is hard or impossible and the alternatives frankly, suck. I don't _think_ I get high from controlling an office environment (not sure what that means) but I sure miss white boards and in-person collaboration.

It's not just you. I cannot manage to do people stuff over videochat. Not to mention virtual whiteboards are a frustratingly poor imitation of the real deal. On the other hand, I do work better on my own, when I just need to grind out some work.

I guess my ideal would be 2 or 3 days remote and the rest in office.

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