El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender • Hacker News Board

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#581

Post by chaostheory » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

keymone wrote: post #491

chaostheory wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not. Bitcoin has stagnated, and it hasn't delivered its promise of being used as a DeFi currency. I bet if it was Ethereum that El Salvador had chosen, the opinion wouldn't be as harsh. Proof of stake doesn't have the same energy consumption concerns. imo this is still a great development for all of crypto and DeFi. It will also help protect people who aren't connected and wealthy from losing their value due to e…

Proof of stake doesn’t use the energy because it doesn’t solve the problem that bitcoin solves.

Yes, but what's your point?

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#582

Post by bigphishy » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

rawtxapp wrote: post #515

bruce343434 wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still all sounds really complicated, obtuse and unnecessary. They should've went with a cryptocurrency which is actually usable out of the box as a... currency.

And that crypto would be?

nano to name one

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#583

Post by rorykoehler » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

EthanHeilman wrote: post #479

rorykoehler wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why bother with Bitcoin at all if you need a trusted third party? Crypto maximalists have let greed blind them from the initial mission of crypto.

>Why bother with Bitcoin at all if you need a trusted third party? This is a good question and we should always be asking "Why Bitcoin?" and think about the trade-offs. For small amounts of bitcoin a trusted third party, especially an institutional trusted third party, makes a lot of sense. Convenience, availability and low transaction fees dominate the user's needs. For large amounts of bitcoin, you probably don't w…

I’m still not seeing the value of Bitcoin for smaller transactions. Just use the existing banking system and if you want to buy Bitcoin then buy Bitcoin.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#584

Post by freeone3000 » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

warkdarrior wrote: post #397

freeone3000 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's closer to each individual bank having their own digital currency, all of which are worth 1 USD each. The digital US dollars at my bank are not directly exchangable with the digital US dollars at your bank. You need to settle up with an ACH transaction, which takes at least a day to transact as it has to run in a central batch job. In addition, only US domestic institutions can use this mechanism to transfer US d…

> The digital US dollars at my bank are not directly exchangable with the digital US dollars at your bank. You need to settle up with an ACH transaction, which takes at least a day to transact as it has to run in a central batch job. FedNow will reduce that latency from days to minutes. US is slow in that game, but RTP is widely deployed in UK, France, etc. For international transactions, one can use SWIFT (days) or…

FedNow is a digital cash system. It's not there yet, and it's still not international. As for Western Union et al, it's a bit like claiming the US has a digital cash system because Venmo exists -- it's someone else taking on the risk the funds won't settle in order to provide a better user experience. So the US is approaching a digital cash system, but it's not there.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#585

Post by rawtxapp » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

ankurpatel wrote: post #571

rawtxapp wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, maybe just consider this, you are wrong and it ends up being very successful and more countries adopt it. For what it's worth, they have already been using Bitcoin in the El Zonte for some time now [1]. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tatianakoffman/2020/07/14/this-...

My question to you is have you used it to buy anything real with it?

Not only I have used it many times, I've even built a lightning network wallet (link in my profile).

You just have to look around and you'll see that millions of people are using it on a regular basis. Pure speculation can't make something become worth as much as Bitcoin is worth right now.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#586

Post by Geee » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

aNoob7000 wrote: post #459

warkdarrior wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The digital US dollars at my bank are not directly exchangable with the digital US dollars at your bank. You need to settle up with an ACH transaction, which takes at least a day to transact as it has to run in a central batch job. FedNow will reduce that latency from days to minutes. US is slow in that game, but RTP is widely deployed in UK, France, etc. For international transactions, one can use SWIFT (days) or…

I want my digital cash to work like regular cash. I need to pay the lawn guy, send an iMessage. I wanna buy lunch, swipe my phone and pay with the money in my phone. I don't need the charge going through my bank or some intermediary. I want freedom to use my digital money the way I want without someone holding my account hostage, if I do something wrong. Additionally, I have no problem losing my money, if I send the…

That's good usability-wise, but it still has the problem of central banks being able to create money (diluting your wealth for their benefit) and also being able to cancel you, or someone you want to pay, out of the system. It's a horribly powerful way to control people.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#587

Post by fredfoobar » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

Dzugaru wrote: post #517

ar_lan wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This weird meme that Bitcoin is so beneficial to criminal activity (especially in comparison with physical cash)... I don't know where it started, but I wish its completely bad-faith nature would die. Sure, the Silk Road started, but the feds have wised up on how to trace Bitcoin since then - it's fairly straight-forward given the public-nature of the blockchain.

You must be joking? There is a trivial way to hide the traces by using mixers. Why do you think ransomware and black markets today exclusively run crypto not fiat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDIGJRd_PyE&t=5s&ab_channel=...

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#588

Post by jbverschoor » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:19 PM UTC

KingOfCoders wrote: post #471

jbverschoor wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks are free to accept, reject, or kick people. Not just there. Also here. Banks, PayPal, all the same shit in terms of exclusion and power imbalance

If everyone has the right to a bank account, bank cant't reject or kick people.

This already is the case in the Netherlands.

Don’t you understand? The system is broken

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#589

Post by rawtxapp » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

bigphishy wrote: post #582

rawtxapp wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that crypto would be?

nano to name one

Why? Are you saying that countries should start adopting a crypto with a market cap of barely 1B$, that's been around for a less amount of time, that's significantly less battle tested and that never recovered to it's all time high value?

Do you think that the only thing that matters for crypto is speed and fees? You don't think trust/security/decentralization have any value?

Bitcoin chooses trust and security above everything else, as it should. Then you can have layers on top where you transact at the speed of network packets.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#590

Post by hackernudes » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 7:28 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #155

throwkeep wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're using Strike, which has no fees, nearly instant transfers, can send globally (again for free) and only need a name and phone number. Isn't that better than a bank aside from clawbacks? https://strike.me/

But you see that's the problem. With Strike you aren't tranasacting on the Blockchain, you're transacting through Strike which I then would settle the transaction for you. Yes it has the advantage of no fees, instant transfers, etc. But you aren't really transacting on the blockchain, at least not directly. El Salvador picked BTC because of it's popularity, the problem is BTC is a terrible currency to actually use fo…

Strike is a custodial wallet. However, it is fully interoperable with self-custody bitcoin and lightning network wallets. I can send and receive payments with any other bitcoin wallet. Strike is the "rails" to/from traditional finance. It is possible to deposit USD and withdraw true bitcoin immediately. In my opinion, it is a good balance.

The biggest problem to me is that it is REALLY hard to understand the lightning network. I have tried most of the lightning wallet apps[1] and they are not very clear about where your keys are, how channels are managed, and what tradeoffs have been made. I am optimistic the infrastructure and technology will get there quickly. I think the lightning network will be kind of like email. Decentralized but most people use a few big players. I have been able to bounce back and forth tiny payments (less than a dollar worth) between most of these wallets in seconds. It's pretty amazing.

[1] Muun, Phoenix, Wallet of Satoshi, BlueWallet, Breez, Lightning Labs (beta, no longer available)