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Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

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Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's not wrong though. I own an M1 Macbook Air, and while there are some workloads that it can outperform my desktop at My point is that this isn't even an interesting conversation to have. Your desktop can outperform a chip that runs an iPad? Cool story bro. > they were forced to revoke their claim of having the "fastest CPU cores" after it was vehemently disproven. Their announcement explicitly said "when it come…

> My point is that this isn't even an interesting conversation to have. Your desktop can outperform a chip that runs an iPad? Cool story bro. The desktop I'm comparing it to is 7 years old and cost $600 new. You can't even buy an M1 iPad for that price today. > Their announcement explicitly said "when it comes to low power silicon." Which is an arbitrary goalpost that means nothing. The M1 uses 7w at full tilt, does…

> The desktop I'm comparing it to is 7 years old and cost $600 new. You can't even buy an M1 iPad for that price today.

Which desktop is this with what components? What's the metric you're comparing? Show me the benchmarks. This still feels like the world's dumbest comparison but hey I'm at least curious now.

> Which is an arbitrary goalpost that means nothing.

But it's the goalpost they very clearly set--you're the one who either missed it or willfully chooses to ignore it, which means you're the one being misleading, not them.

> Because that's what you can buy for $1000. That's the performance standard. If Apple wanted the M1 to be compared to machines with integrated graphics, they should have released a computer at that price point

A pure price comparison on its own is missing so many relevant factors and you know it. You can also buy a desktop that outperforms a smartphone that costs the same. Is that a fair comparison? How much energy do these machines consume, what's their battery life under load, how much do they weigh, etc etc. I don't just walk into Best Buy and say "here's a $1,000 bring me the thing with the best Geek Bench score, no other criteria."

>The datacenter market is looking at the M1 and laughing

What are you even talking about now. Since when was the datacenter in the design goals for the M1.

>But I frankly don't care, and I have a hard time believing that other people do too

No one cares about battery life or the weight of their laptop? This is news to me. I have a feeling it's news to all the people who buy ultrabooks, too.

>Performance-per-watt is Apple's neat way of giving performance a denominator, because they simply can't compete with the rest of the industry wholesale.

Because they're not trying to outcompete the entire industry in every form factor with the M1, since the goal is to provide stellar performance while still achieving efficiency that enables small form factor designs. You are exhausting with this "willfully missing the whole point" thing.

Again, they haven't even released the parts that are actually meant to compete at the higher wattages you're trying to compare against the M1.

I'll make an analogy--maybe it'll help. Car Company A just came out with a brand new sedan with industry best Miles Per Gallon. And beyond just the MPG rating, it can actually tow some pretty heavy loads, too! Heavier than other sedans in its weight class. Impressive stuff.

You're the guy with the F-350 dually pumping his chest saying "mine can still tow more!"

Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My M1 Mac's GPU still loses in several benchmarks against my 7-year-old 1060." The GPU in the AS M1 is the fastest integrated graphics available in the mainstream computing market [1]. That is the competition, not a standalone, 120W GPU. Apple is purportedly now working on separating their GPU designs into a much larger heat and power profile (which contrary to some of the comments on here clearly isn't going to be…

> They aren't within a ballfield, literally with 1/4 or worse the performance. Bzzzzt We aren't comparing performance-per-watt, we're comparing raw compute for the price.

Oh, are we? Seems like we're kind of all over the map in here. Whatever particular teased angle apparently wins the argument or something.

All while Apple keeps executing superbly. Eh.

Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is that this isn't even an interesting conversation to have. Your desktop can outperform a chip that runs an iPad? Cool story bro. The desktop I'm comparing it to is 7 years old and cost $600 new. You can't even buy an M1 iPad for that price today. > Their announcement explicitly said "when it comes to low power silicon." Which is an arbitrary goalpost that means nothing. The M1 uses 7w at full tilt, does…

> The desktop I'm comparing it to is 7 years old and cost $600 new. You can't even buy an M1 iPad for that price today. Which desktop is this with what components? What's the metric you're comparing? Show me the benchmarks. This still feels like the world's dumbest comparison but hey I'm at least curious now. > Which is an arbitrary goalpost that means nothing. But it's the goalpost they very clearly set--you're the…

> You're the guy with the F-350 dually pumping his chest saying "mine can still tow more!"

You're the guy getting downvoted for acting like a child when everyone disagrees with you. I'm done here.

Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The desktop I'm comparing it to is 7 years old and cost $600 new. You can't even buy an M1 iPad for that price today. Which desktop is this with what components? What's the metric you're comparing? Show me the benchmarks. This still feels like the world's dumbest comparison but hey I'm at least curious now. > Which is an arbitrary goalpost that means nothing. But it's the goalpost they very clearly set--you're the…

> You're the guy with the F-350 dually pumping his chest saying "mine can still tow more!" You're the guy getting downvoted for acting like a child when everyone disagrees with you. I'm done here.

Ah, so we're talking the ball and going home now.

Who is this everyone you speak of?

Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#115
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda silly to use Rosetta when the whole point of this is native support for TensorFlow on M1.

Maybe, but lots and lots of software applications are not even close to being hardware constrained or in this specific case Rosetta constrained. If you're trying to get work done and you have the computational overhead available, this absolutely sounds like the right solution. Even if it's less efficient, I can easily imagine situations where "I need this to work without thinking about it" could win out.

I'm not saying "don't use Rosetta", I'm saying using Rosetta is totally pointless in this case, where literally the whole point is native M1 support.

Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#116

I'm still trying to find a way to monitor the Neural Engine on my Macbook air M1, but the APIs are non-existent, there's barely anything in the docs and no answer from Apple. My models train fast, 3x faster than most i7 computers with GPU, which is excellent for a fanless ultraportable computer but I wish Apple would treat the NE as a 1st class citizen on these machines, with Mac SDK APIs and usage visualization in t…

> 3x faster than most i7 computers with GPU Can you back that statement up with anything, or at least clarify it? You seem to suggesting a non-mac i7 with a separate GPU. Also, just an FYI, "i7" says pretty much nothing. The i7s have existed since 2009. I don't know. The statement is just so vague and ridiculous. The M1 is probably the worst hardware you could have picked in 2020-2021 if computational power was your…

I meant to write most i7 machines with a GPU where I trained my models. My post was about the lack of adequate SDKs for the NE on the M1. I don't know why the fuck you grabbed that tiny fraction and just ran off with it like I was writing an appleboy marketing manifesto on the M1 prowess.

Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#117
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the majority of these are "an attacker can craft a model that causes problems." Are people actually using tensorflow to run untrusted models?

Yes, eg ml developers and researchers test published or informally shared models.

Also, most ml apps don't treat model files with arbitrary-code-execution level precautions.

Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is that this isn't even an interesting conversation to have. Your desktop can outperform a chip that runs an iPad? Cool story bro. The desktop I'm comparing it to is 7 years old and cost $600 new. You can't even buy an M1 iPad for that price today. > Their announcement explicitly said "when it comes to low power silicon." Which is an arbitrary goalpost that means nothing. The M1 uses 7w at full tilt, does…

> The desktop I'm comparing it to is 7 years old and cost $600 new. You can't even buy an M1 iPad for that price today. Which desktop is this with what components? What's the metric you're comparing? Show me the benchmarks. This still feels like the world's dumbest comparison but hey I'm at least curious now. > Which is an arbitrary goalpost that means nothing. But it's the goalpost they very clearly set--you're the…

You broke the site guidelines repeatedly in this thread. That's not cool. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and make your substantive points respectfully in the future? That means no name-calling, no personal attacks, and no swipes.

Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The desktop I'm comparing it to is 7 years old and cost $600 new. You can't even buy an M1 iPad for that price today. Which desktop is this with what components? What's the metric you're comparing? Show me the benchmarks. This still feels like the world's dumbest comparison but hey I'm at least curious now. > Which is an arbitrary goalpost that means nothing. But it's the goalpost they very clearly set--you're the…

> You're the guy with the F-350 dually pumping his chest saying "mine can still tow more!" You're the guy getting downvoted for acting like a child when everyone disagrees with you. I'm done here.

Please don't respond to someone breaking the site guidelines by breaking them yourself. I know that's hard when you're feeling provoked, but it only makes this place even worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple M1 support for TensorFlow 2.5 pluggable device API

#120
post #83
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rumors say they’re going to have a high end of 128 gpu cores by using 4 32 gpu core chiplets.

Does that mean they will actually produce a laptop with adequate cooling? Might be worth looking at.

I own an M1 Macbook Air. At its hottest, it's a fraction of the "normal" heat that my year old Intel based Macbook Pro runs at.

To get the M1 warm, I need to be charging it while also playing an Intel based game like the latest Subnautica, with the machine on my lap. Even then, it's not as hot as my Macbook Pro gets while unplugged and browsing the internet.

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