Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Start Disrupting Cryptocurrencies: “Mining” Is Money Transmission

lawfareblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 91 posts

Re: How to Start Disrupting Cryptocurrencies: “Mining” Is Money Transmission

#11

Post by BitwiseFool »

bko wrote: post #3

> All cryptocurrency assets, not just Bitcoin, are zero sum. So every dollar “made” in cryptocurrency was simply provided by someone else. Can't you say that about any other asset? If I sell my house for more than I paid for it, it's zero sum since someone simply provided me that money. But that's not how we determine value. It's positive sum because the buyer attributes a value higher than he had paid for it, otherw…

To buy any cryptocurrency a buyer and a seller must agree on a price and an amount. The idea that the money was "made" by someone else is irrelevant when both parties have agreed to make the trade.

Re: How to Start Disrupting Cryptocurrencies: “Mining” Is Money Transmission

#12

Post by aww_dang »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #5
bmsd_0923 wrote: post #2

What a terrifyingly dumb perspective... "it has helped facilitate a whole lot of bad things" is his whole hand-wavy argument for why people (presumably lawyers) need to go around "throwing sand in the gears." IMO we should be throwing sand in the gears of the government. Starting wars and killing hundreds of thousands of people is much worse than ransomware attacks.

I derive significant utility from my government, and prefer it to continue to function, despite its flaws that need addressing. Less needless wars, for sure, but also less crypto please (if the crypto evades democratic government regulations and laws). If this is a path to applying more regulatory pressure on crypto, by all means, full steam ahead.

Much of cryptocurrency's value comes from the lack of regulation. People are not satisfied with the existing solutions, thus the need for innovation. BTC emerged after the US destroyed LibertyReserve and eGold.

Government could eliminate the some of the needs for cryptocurrencies by removing regulatory barriers to transact.

As an example, compliance costs prohibit PayPal from efficiently processing 25 cent arcade or in game transactions.

>Instead of the standard 2.90% + 30p per transaction that PayPal charges, you’ll be charged a 5% + £0.05 fee on every transaction. This would mean that on a £1 transaction, you will pay 10p as transaction fees, rather than 59p, and you save 41p. Ordinarily, this does not look much, but if you sell very high volumes at low prices, it quickly adds up to become a significant saving. After all, it’s a small leak that sinks great ships.

Additionally, for electronic goods most processors require the merchant to offer a no questions asked refund policy.

Re: How to Start Disrupting Cryptocurrencies: “Mining” Is Money Transmission

#13

Post by Clewza313 »

okareaman wrote: post #6

How would this prevent scenarios such as refurbishing a nuclear powered Russian icebreaker to sit in international waters mining Bitcoin?

If a rogue actor beyond the control of state governments gets its hand on nuclear-powered ships, we have bigger problems than Bitcoin mining.

Re: How to Start Disrupting Cryptocurrencies: “Mining” Is Money Transmission

#14

Post by [deleted] »

aww_dang wrote: post #12
toomuchtodo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I derive significant utility from my government, and prefer it to continue to function, despite its flaws that need addressing. Less needless wars, for sure, but also less crypto please (if the crypto evades democratic government regulations and laws). If this is a path to applying more regulatory pressure on crypto, by all means, full steam ahead.

Much of cryptocurrency's value comes from the lack of regulation. People are not satisfied with the existing solutions, thus the need for innovation. BTC emerged after the US destroyed LibertyReserve and eGold. Government could eliminate the some of the needs for cryptocurrencies by removing regulatory barriers to transact. As an example, compliance costs prohibit PayPal from efficiently processing 25 cent arcade or…

[deleted]

Re: How to Start Disrupting Cryptocurrencies: “Mining” Is Money Transmission

#15

Post by raintrees »

bmsd_0923 wrote: post #2

What a terrifyingly dumb perspective... "it has helped facilitate a whole lot of bad things" is his whole hand-wavy argument for why people (presumably lawyers) need to go around "throwing sand in the gears." IMO we should be throwing sand in the gears of the government. Starting wars and killing hundreds of thousands of people is much worse than ransomware attacks.

I agree. Using the same logic, the USD should definitely be banned.

Re: How to Start Disrupting Cryptocurrencies: “Mining” Is Money Transmission

#16

Post by bko »

dragontamer wrote: post #10
bko wrote: post #3

> All cryptocurrency assets, not just Bitcoin, are zero sum. So every dollar “made” in cryptocurrency was simply provided by someone else. Can't you say that about any other asset? If I sell my house for more than I paid for it, it's zero sum since someone simply provided me that money. But that's not how we determine value. It's positive sum because the buyer attributes a value higher than he had paid for it, otherw…

> If I sell my house for more than I paid for it, it's zero sum since someone simply provided me that money. No transaction between rational individuals is ever zero-sum. If Bob values a house at $300,000 and Alice values the house at $300,000, the house will __never__ be sold. Because by the time transaction fees come about, Bob would have lost money in the transaction. In reality, Bob values the house at $250,000,…

Right, I was using "zero sum" by the author's naive definition to show that it doesn't make sense. My argument is that all voluntary trade has to be positive sum to both parties

Re: How to Start Disrupting Cryptocurrencies: “Mining” Is Money Transmission

#17

Post by bko »

miked85 wrote: post #7
bko wrote: post #3

> All cryptocurrency assets, not just Bitcoin, are zero sum. So every dollar “made” in cryptocurrency was simply provided by someone else. Can't you say that about any other asset? If I sell my house for more than I paid for it, it's zero sum since someone simply provided me that money. But that's not how we determine value. It's positive sum because the buyer attributes a value higher than he had paid for it, otherw…

> it's zero sum since someone simply provided me that money By your definition, every transaction ever made is zero sum.

It's not my definition of zero sum. It's the author of the post. I was attempting to poke holes in it.

Re: How to Start Disrupting Cryptocurrencies: “Mining” Is Money Transmission

#19

Post by jacknews »

Of course bitcoin is about transmitting money, almost by definition. I can't believe it has gone this far without regulation.

If the argument is that is just an asset (which I believe was strongly argued against by bitcoin proponents, at least in early days), then what kind of asset is it? It has absolutely no value beyond it's monetary value.

Post reply on HN