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El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

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Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#161

Post by dougSF70 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #92
aNoob7000 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL! Very true.. Who the hell has time to figure out all this stuff? I personally think the day the digital US dollar is developed and can be stored in your IPhone. If I can take my locally stored digital dollar and then send it via imessage or whatsapp, then the game is truly over for Bitcoin.

I like physical analog cash even though its a pain in the ass to carry. Cashless society is terrifying to me.

I think that using cash makes money expensive which adds some base load inflation - this will help reduces homelessness and other societal ills (such as wealth inequality).

Electronic money is never lost, not like those pounds, pennies, dollars, quarters. Losing money, takes out of circulation. While not much is taken out, it might be enough to create a base load of inflation - money becomes more scarce and therefore more expensive.

Low inflation leads to asset price bubbles - stock market and housing in particular. It also suppresses wage inflation. So housing becomes more expensive and wages do not keep up, making housing less affordable. A double punch.

Low inflation leads to more financial speculation as people with access to capital look to diversify away from a limited pool of assets (Bonds and cash become less desirable in low inflation regimes). Buying housing and leasing it out is a good use of capital. However, this leads real-estate investors to drive increases in rent as they chase yield and airbnb-empires also drive rental prices - as this is one way of driving yield.

High rents combined with low wage growth means that people's lives become priced for perfection and one small deviation can knock them out of equilibrium - losing their home / rental property when they lose their job.

All because governments and technology are conspiring to keep inflation low. Using cash is the person-on-the-street's only weapon to fight it.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#163

Post by mistercheph »

acdha wrote: post #124
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that "normal people" will be able to use bitcoin at all without getting their private keys stolen is laughable. Think of how often online bank accounts get hacked in the US, except the difference now is that your money is gone, permanently.

… and the people who made that possible for the hacker will laugh at you and say it's your fault rather than admitting that the system they sold you is fragile.

But there is a fundamental difference in that you never need to identify yourself to anyone ever: unlike our present banks and institutions where "We will never ask you for your password" is a statement meant with 30 conditionals attached to it, and so is "Don't give out your social security number."

Really grandma, never give anyone your private key, ever, and only write it down with pen and paper, never on the computer.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#164

Post by janeroe »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #63
spottybanana wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the normal people will use in the beginning is going to be non-custodial LN based solution like strike. Minimal fees, easy to use. If you get a bit more, move to custodial LN wallet/onchain transactions. More fees, more security and less trust. And once you have too much BTC start storing them in an offline cold storage.

The idea that "normal people" will be able to use bitcoin at all without getting their private keys stolen is laughable. Think of how often online bank accounts get hacked in the US, except the difference now is that your money is gone, permanently.

> The idea that "normal people" will be able to use bitcoin at all ... is laughable.

The idea that "normal people" will be able to use cash at all is laughable.

The idea that "normal people" will be able to use gold coins at all is laughable.

And yet, many use (or used to) and don't need a mommy state to tell them what to do.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#165

Post by arenaninja »

runbathtime wrote: post #145
blocked_again wrote: post #18

> The El Salvador President has previously said the move will open up financial services to the 70% of Salvadoreans who do not have bank accounts. Right. People who can't even afford a bank account would now all be using financial services by paying 10 dollars per transaction.

The main benefit from this that I can see is that El Salvador will attract bitcoin businesses with a lot of money and other bitcoin whales who might move there and start businesses, employing locals and injecting money into the El Salvador economy. The average person isn't going to use bitcoin and the average merchant will likely never be paid in it.

This is hopefully the plan. As a Salvadorean living in the US it would worry me otherwise

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#166

Post by raesene9 »

limusrazor wrote: post #78
ChrisRR wrote: post #51

I wish bitcoin hadn't become the go-to crpyto. As a world, we shouldn't be encouraging the use of a currency which is literally churning out CO2 into the air when there's so many less wasteful cryptos out there

The less wasteful cryptos are more centralized. What's the point of using an inefficient data structure (blockchain) if you are sacrificing de-centralization in pursuit of gaining efficiency? Over time miners will move into renewable energies as the price of them goes down.

From a financial trading/pricing standpoint, I'd say bitcoin is centralized too, in that binance, bitfinex, coinbase and the rest of the major exchanges are necessary for the trading process.

Then when you add their dependence on centralized stablecoins like Tether to the mix, I don't think BTC would have the price it has now, if it were truly decentralized.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#167

Post by 52-6F-62 »

viraptor wrote: post #134
BurnGpuBurn wrote: post #86

"Bitcoin is positioned to disrupt the remittances industry in El Salvador, estimated at about $5 billion annually. Most families in towns like El Zonte do not have bank accounts, and rely on services such as Western Union WU +0.5%, which take 5-10% in fees. The closest Western Union is approximately one hour by bus, requiring the recipient of the cash transfer to take the bus back with cash on hand, creating a safety…

The WU fees are likely so high because they can be. If there's no competition, why not rake profits? I'm curious what the fees will be in a few weeks.

If you are the only financial service for a large population, why not take them for all they're worth?

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#168

Post by rawtxapp »

blocked_again wrote: post #148
BTCOG wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are using Zap/Strike (Lightning) and zero fees. The phony "fees are $1,000 a tx line" and $10 hyperbole simply show you have no clue what you're talking about when speaking about Bitcoin. Even on chain the past solid week you could send free BTC transactions, or for a couple of cents.

I am sorry but what is the point of adopting BTC if vast majority of the transactions are going to be handled by a third party service. Makes no sense to me.

Strike is just one player in the lightning space, there are many other alternatives [1] (Phoenix is an easy to use non-custodial one).

1: https://lightningnetworkstores.com/wallets

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#169

Post by carloseduardov »

blocked_again wrote: post #18

> The El Salvador President has previously said the move will open up financial services to the 70% of Salvadoreans who do not have bank accounts. Right. People who can't even afford a bank account would now all be using financial services by paying 10 dollars per transaction.

I am salvadoran myself and I do not support the current president but I should say that the law passed by congress says that El Salvador will have it's own bitcoin reserve and an exchange for bitcoin against USD (our current national currency), so there will NOT be a transaction fee involved as you are just moving within a national reserve with a national exchange.

Re: El Salvador makes Bitcoin legal tender

#170

Post by arthurcolle »

blocked_again wrote: post #148
BTCOG wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are using Zap/Strike (Lightning) and zero fees. The phony "fees are $1,000 a tx line" and $10 hyperbole simply show you have no clue what you're talking about when speaking about Bitcoin. Even on chain the past solid week you could send free BTC transactions, or for a couple of cents.

I am sorry but what is the point of adopting BTC if vast majority of the transactions are going to be handled by a third party service. Makes no sense to me.

"Why even have friends when I need to have a bunch of them? Makes no sense to me"
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