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The myth of the driverless tube train

londonreconnections.com

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Re: The myth of the driverless tube train

#71

Post by Zenst »

vidarh wrote: post #25
crimsoneer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. London's tube system is essentially stopped a day or so a year due to strikes, which is pretty dramatic for a city of 10 million people who rely on it.

Most strikes affecting the underground have not been just drivers, so making the system driverless would be unlikely to change that.

True, and been over safty concerns/reduction in safty staff.

Though: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19741282

Nicely sums up how the whole driveless tube/train aspect has been rumbling on for a while now.

Re: The myth of the driverless tube train

#72

Post by e17 »

KineticLensman wrote: post #66
e17 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's in the very narrow situation of a head-on collision, something I don't think has happened on the tube in my lifetime. I'm talking about any kind of general emergency. I remember 7/7/05 like it was yesterday.

The 1975 Moorgate accident [0] was a single train accident that killed 43 people including the driver, who failed to brake his train as he approached a dead end. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorgate_tube_crash

Anything from a more relevant era, perhaps one in which passengers aboard an underground train weren't allowed to smoke a cigar?

Re: The myth of the driverless tube train

#73

Post by [deleted] »

crimsoneer wrote: post #16
627467 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't be popular opinion but, one benefit of driverless subway is: decreased risk of industrial action disruptions. In the city I live underground drivers hold ridiculous privileged (even compared to other underground workers) that allows positions to be effectively hereditary: children of drivers are more likely to get into the job than others.

This. London's tube system is essentially stopped a day or so a year due to strikes, which is pretty dramatic for a city of 10 million people who rely on it.

[deleted]

Re: The myth of the driverless tube train

#75

Post by mschuster91 »

> There are over 100 metro systems in the world built before 2000. Of those, why have only four been converted to full automation?

Because the retrofits that the article details, no matter if installing platform doors, re-wiring infrastructure or replacing old carriages to actually enable consistent door positions, costs a lot of money, and public transport isn't at the top of public spending priority - car infrastructure is sucking up all the funds. Everywhere.

You want automated trains? Lobby your politicians to redistribute funding.

Re: The myth of the driverless tube train

#76

Post by BurningFrog »

teachingassist wrote: post #36
crimsoneer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. London's tube system is essentially stopped a day or so a year due to strikes, which is pretty dramatic for a city of 10 million people who rely on it.

London's transport strikes have been shown to ultimately benefit the wider economy, as people have broken out of their local maximums and found more efficient ways to travel around.

That you can identify a benefit doesn't mean it's outweighing the costs.

Re: The myth of the driverless tube train

#77

Post by [deleted] »

chrisseaton wrote: post #62
LatteLazy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's political. In the uk, train drivers unions are one of the last meaningful unions left and the right wing government hates that. Also, London has a left wing mayor and a very good public transport system. The right wing government hate both the mayor (he's heir apparent to lead the party nationally) and the concept of public transport. That's also the real reason private train operators were bailed out but public…

> he's heir apparent to lead the party nationally He’s not even an MP! He’s not allowed to be the leader.

[deleted]

Re: The myth of the driverless tube train

#78

Post by mschuster91 »

Zenst wrote: post #14
627467 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't be popular opinion but, one benefit of driverless subway is: decreased risk of industrial action disruptions. In the city I live underground drivers hold ridiculous privileged (even compared to other underground workers) that allows positions to be effectively hereditary: children of drivers are more likely to get into the job than others.

> Won't be popular opinion but, one benefit of driverless subway is: decreased risk of industrial action disruptions. Very true, though equally the increased risk of automated safety system stopping the train in the middle of a long tube tunnel because one of it's sensors got dirty or a rat triggered a sensor as it went splat on the tracks are things drivers can work around easier. So if a perfectly safe and working…

> Automation will go into health and safety mode and stop that train in the middle of nowhere needing human attention. So delays become longer.

In Germany, trains have a system called "Notbremsüberbrückung" / NBÜ. This system overrides the passenger emergency brake in tunnels... basically (i'm shortening it a bit here), as soon as the last carriage leaves the platform (in an underground) or the train can't fully stop before entering a tunnel, the e-brake is disabled, and only re-enabled when the train enters a platform / exits the tunnel.

There's nothing preventing automated trains from using the same principle. Additionally, tunnels can be retrofit with cameras or motion detectors, to further prevent something larger than a rat from getting in a dangerous position.

Re: The myth of the driverless tube train

#80

Post by Symbiote »

e17 wrote: post #72
KineticLensman wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1975 Moorgate accident [0] was a single train accident that killed 43 people including the driver, who failed to brake his train as he approached a dead end. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorgate_tube_crash

Anything from a more relevant era, perhaps one in which passengers aboard an underground train weren't allowed to smoke a cigar?

There's a list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_London_Underground_acc...

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