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Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

dispatch.com

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Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#671

Post by ahallock »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #451

If we ignore all this culture war bullshit for a minute there's a really fascinating issue here. The concrete issue is flight search. When you google "flight from a to b", rather then seeing search results linking to websites for flight search, the first thing you see is the results of Google's own flight search. Is that wrong? What about image search? When you search for "skyline berlin", you'll see images of berlin…

> There are only two clear, non-arbitrary rules: Search engines are only allowed to show a list of links, or search engines can show whatever they want.

I want companies to be able to design products that best serve customers, not ones limited by narrowly scoped product definitions. Google's search page has advanced beyond query + results, offering interactivity and shortcuts. I'm not saying we shouldn't be vigilant if they start abusing their position and dominating too many markets, but let's take that case by case.

I also disagree that Google can simply take over other businesses so easily. They've failed so many times. You'd think Youtube Music would dominate, but Spotify is still more popular. YouTube TV? I cancelled that a while ago. What am I surprised about is that we don't have a really strong YouTube competitor. Twitch, TikTok, and Instagram have made some in-roads, but nothing I'd call a strong #2.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#672

Post by Maursault »

It surprises me that a lot of the comments here seem to be oblivious to how Google's PageRank algorithm ranks search results. [1]

PageRank works by counting the number and quality of links to a page to determine a rough estimate of how important the website is. The underlying assumption is that more important websites are likely to receive more links from other websites.[1]

The results of a Google search may not be as one expects because PageRank is the primary algorithm used to return Google search results. If owners of a website want to improve their Google result ranking, they are really required to tune their website to show up in Google search, but more importantly, they need other sites to link to their site, and presumably, the more popular the site, the more links there are to it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#673

Post by ahallock »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #656
irrational wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I type " weather" google will show me the weather, but which weather company has shutdown because of that? I have noticed recently that the Weather.com app has added huge advertisements at the top and has roughly doubled the number of ads within the page. It honestly feels like desperation to me and I’ve been wondering if something bad is happening to the company.

It has no reason to exist in the first place. All the data for weather comes from government agencies anyway, and weather.gov does the same job. They’re a relic from when we did not have internet and there might have been some utility in a middleman producing a TV channel to get people that information.

While weather.gov does serve that purpose, someone else could provide a much better UI -- sort of like what Simple did with banking (I know they shutdown...haha, but they did create a better experience over traditional banking). Why give one website a monopoly?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#674

Post by jpitz »

asddubs wrote: post #410
jpitz wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need a smart meter?

because it's remotely updateable, and an analogue meter cannot measure apparent power (when the power returns to the grid the wheel would spin in the other direction)

Remote updating doesn't provide apparent power measurement, a power measurement chip does - this does require an upgraded meter, yes, but does not necessitate a smart one, although the economics of upgrading a fleet of meters probably dictates that they be smart meters for other reasons.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#675

Post by count »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #451

If we ignore all this culture war bullshit for a minute there's a really fascinating issue here. The concrete issue is flight search. When you google "flight from a to b", rather then seeing search results linking to websites for flight search, the first thing you see is the results of Google's own flight search. Is that wrong? What about image search? When you search for "skyline berlin", you'll see images of berlin…

Crucially, I went to Googles business first to look for things.

In the olden days, if I went to AAA for travel advice, I'd get their partners and such recommended, not generic all-encompassing information. But I went to AAA for it. I don' see how this is any different. I can chose to go to not-google and Google then doesn't impact me.

Does Walmart have to put anybody's stuff where they want in the aisles?

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#677

Post by muyuu »

voxl wrote: post #419
jrochkind1 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it make you suspect their motivations are?

The obvious? More control over a perceived liberal-biased company from a republican controlled state.

I'm not American but I find it worrisome that some of the largest companies in the US (and the world) are so "obviously" partisan and willing to exert their power in a partisan fashion, as people accept this reality uncritically - whether it's in favour of their allegiances or not.

That's what a dangerously broken society looks like. The common folk should never be openly supportive of "robber baron"-style political activism and it's unprecedented AFAIK.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#678

Post by ganzuul »

count wrote: post #675
amadeuspagel wrote: post #451

If we ignore all this culture war bullshit for a minute there's a really fascinating issue here. The concrete issue is flight search. When you google "flight from a to b", rather then seeing search results linking to websites for flight search, the first thing you see is the results of Google's own flight search. Is that wrong? What about image search? When you search for "skyline berlin", you'll see images of berlin…

Crucially, I went to Googles business first to look for things . In the olden days, if I went to AAA for travel advice, I'd get their partners and such recommended, not generic all-encompassing information. But I went to AAA for it . I don' see how this is any different. I can chose to go to not-google and Google then doesn't impact me. Does Walmart have to put anybody's stuff where they want in the aisles?

> Does Walmart have to put anybody's stuff where they want in the aisles?

That could be an incredible boon to the ecoconomy.

As a younger man I gave up on the idea of making simple consumer products on realizing that the large supermarket chains around here could dash my work on the rocks by just a middle manager arbitrarily saying 'no' to stocking what I had made.

So yes, I think those companies should be forced to work with local businesses.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#679

Post by ashneo76 »

cbolton wrote: post #668
johbjo wrote: post #616

Let's say the electric company wants to start a restaurant. So they shut the power to the competing restaurants in the neighbourhood. Everyone agrees it would be outrageous. Now, what about Apple dictating payment policy on apps in the app store? Google premiering their own services in the results? Forcing their own apps onto all Android devices, impossible to remove? These platforms turn themselves into natural mono…

This analogy seems way off to me. It completely misses the fact that Google is doing what it's supposed to do which is giving the user the information they're looking for. I don't think cutting power is giving the customer (restaurants) or users (not clear in the analogy) what they want. It's true that with flight search, competitor results are de-emphasized, but as far as I'm concerned Google could even drop them en…

Are there many options to Google? That is where the example breaks down

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#680

Post by count »

ganzuul wrote: post #678
count wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crucially, I went to Googles business first to look for things . In the olden days, if I went to AAA for travel advice, I'd get their partners and such recommended, not generic all-encompassing information. But I went to AAA for it . I don' see how this is any different. I can chose to go to not-google and Google then doesn't impact me. Does Walmart have to put anybody's stuff where they want in the aisles?

> Does Walmart have to put anybody's stuff where they want in the aisles? That could be an incredible boon to the ecoconomy. As a younger man I gave up on the idea of making simple consumer products on realizing that the large supermarket chains around here could dash my work on the rocks by just a middle manager arbitrarily saying 'no' to stocking what I had made. So yes, I think those companies should be forced to…

Should you be forced to put my stuff in your house? These are private companies, where does that force end?
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