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Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

bbc.com

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Re: Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

#11

Post by arn »

01100011 wrote: post #5

I've seen people complaining that the article is disingenuous because it conflates income taxes with capital gains taxes. My response is 'so what'. When you make above a certain income level, you don't need anymore income and can play around with reinvesting capital gains to push taxes into the future while amassing wealth. Sure, you're not realizing the income, but what you're doing, I think, is gaining power and in…

It conflates income with unrealized capital gains.

You can make an argument that income and capital gains should be taxed at similar rates, but it feels like they are being purposely misleading in their presentation, when they use unrealized capital gains as the denominator.

No one else’s taxes are viewed through that lens.

Re: Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

#12

Post by influx »

01100011 wrote: post #5

I've seen people complaining that the article is disingenuous because it conflates income taxes with capital gains taxes. My response is 'so what'. When you make above a certain income level, you don't need anymore income and can play around with reinvesting capital gains to push taxes into the future while amassing wealth. Sure, you're not realizing the income, but what you're doing, I think, is gaining power and in…

Actually what I saw was that it conflated wealth with income. Just because there are unrealized capital gains in someone's account doesn't mean they are avoiding taxes.

Re: Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

#13

Post by hilbertseries »

01100011 wrote: post #5

I've seen people complaining that the article is disingenuous because it conflates income taxes with capital gains taxes. My response is 'so what'. When you make above a certain income level, you don't need anymore income and can play around with reinvesting capital gains to push taxes into the future while amassing wealth. Sure, you're not realizing the income, but what you're doing, I think, is gaining power and in…

I think you’re missing the point, capital gains is when you sell an asset. The article is talking about how much net worth grew due to asset appreciation. Not how much stock they sold. The article is arguing for a wealth tax, without admitting it.

Re: Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

#14

Post by imgabe »

01100011 wrote: post #5

I've seen people complaining that the article is disingenuous because it conflates income taxes with capital gains taxes. My response is 'so what'. When you make above a certain income level, you don't need anymore income and can play around with reinvesting capital gains to push taxes into the future while amassing wealth. Sure, you're not realizing the income, but what you're doing, I think, is gaining power and in…

We do tax capital gains. You pay taxes when you sell. Do you mean tax unrealized capital gains?

There is a reason you don’t owe taxes on a stock you haven’t sold yet. For one thing, what if you have to pay tax at one valuation, and then it goes down later.

Re: Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

#15

Post by imgabe »

vkou wrote: post #8
shoto_io wrote: post #7

"Don't hate the player hate the game," is what comes to my mind. I would guess it's all legal. It is still good to have transparency, which might potentially change things. I am not so sure though. After all, politicans are usually rich as well. But: All of these super-rich have probably created many, many jobs. I guess all-in-all it is a positive game for society.

> I would guess it's all legal. When it's all secret, we can't make an informed decision on whether or not it should be legal.

Publicly release your own tax return first then. Be the change you want to see.

Re: Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

#16

Post by jakelazaroff »

shoto_io wrote: post #7

"Don't hate the player hate the game," is what comes to my mind. I would guess it's all legal. It is still good to have transparency, which might potentially change things. I am not so sure though. After all, politicans are usually rich as well. But: All of these super-rich have probably created many, many jobs. I guess all-in-all it is a positive game for society.

At a certain level of wealth, you are the game. Amazon’s famous HQ2 contest was literally about which city would bend its own tax laws to benefit them most.

Re: Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

#17

Post by aaronschroeder »

But what is the solution? Most wealth of people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos is tied to ownership shares in their companies. I don't think it's fair to force them to sell shares so they can cover higher taxes. I also fear efforts to extract more tax money from them will ultimately just raise the bill for the middle class. The ultra wealthy can afford to hire a team of accountants to find the loopholes while small businesses are stuck with higher corporate tax rates.

Re: Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

#18

Post by astuyvenberg »

imgabe wrote: post #14
01100011 wrote: post #5

I've seen people complaining that the article is disingenuous because it conflates income taxes with capital gains taxes. My response is 'so what'. When you make above a certain income level, you don't need anymore income and can play around with reinvesting capital gains to push taxes into the future while amassing wealth. Sure, you're not realizing the income, but what you're doing, I think, is gaining power and in…

We do tax capital gains. You pay taxes when you sell. Do you mean tax unrealized capital gains? There is a reason you don’t owe taxes on a stock you haven’t sold yet. For one thing, what if you have to pay tax at one valuation, and then it goes down later.

The issue is when the ultra-wealthy take out loans against their investment assets (and thus, those unrealized capital gains).

By doing that, ultra-wealthy _are_ realizing the value of their investments without being taxed. That's how this wealth is being accessed, and that's a large component of what drives these ultra-low tax rates for the ultra-wealthy.

Re: Tax details of US super-rich allegedly leaked

#20

Post by foobarbazboff »

01100011 wrote: post #5

I've seen people complaining that the article is disingenuous because it conflates income taxes with capital gains taxes. My response is 'so what'. When you make above a certain income level, you don't need anymore income and can play around with reinvesting capital gains to push taxes into the future while amassing wealth. Sure, you're not realizing the income, but what you're doing, I think, is gaining power and in…

If there's a way to reinvest capital gains without realizing them I'd love to know how to do that (without dying of course.)
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