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Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

dispatch.com

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Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#191

Post by loup-vaillant »

adrr wrote: post #95

But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers. I don’t have any choice for water, electricity, sewer, on any other public utility. I am sure there are a bunch of people on here that don’t use any Google products and are using DuckDuckGo, Firefox, ProtonMail, Vimeo. There are many choices.

> But I have multiple choices for email, search, video hosting and browsers.

Not video hosting you don't. If you want to build a significant English speaking audience, your only real choice is YouTube, because that's where people search from. Seriously, who has a "Vimeo" app on their phone? On their set-top box?

Same thing if you want to watch interesting videos: most of the content is on YouTube.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#192

Post by sangnoir »

sbazerque wrote: post #161
genericuser314 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're making a category error in your analogy. DuckDuckGo is much more like Google than "dig a well" is like municipal water.

I think he's not - when you look at it from the point of view of someone who wants to buy search advertisements. Duck Duck Go doesn't come nearly close to the kind of reach Google has.

The difference between DDG and Google ads is quantitative - not qualitative.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#193

Post by [deleted] »

ccity88 wrote: post #139
caslon wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google-avoider checking in! It's actually really easy to avoid it. DuckDuckGo's search quality is better, Firefox is deteriorating daily but still looks and feels better than Chrome does, email should really be avoided but there are dozens of really good email services, and their ad service doesn't need a replacement for obvious reasons (just block it).

Except it's actually not that easy. Most of the web uses google analytics, so its unavoidable when you visit a website. Most of the web's emails are routed through google; I remember reading a post about a guy who set up his own SMTP server and everything, but then realised that everyone he was contacting was using gmail anyway (can't find the post). Every time you see an add that's served by google, that means that…

[deleted]

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#194

Post by jrockway »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #176
caslon wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google-avoider checking in! It's actually really easy to avoid it. DuckDuckGo's search quality is better, Firefox is deteriorating daily but still looks and feels better than Chrome does, email should really be avoided but there are dozens of really good email services, and their ad service doesn't need a replacement for obvious reasons (just block it).

What do you do when you have a job interview that is scheduled as a Google Meet meeting? Or when a friend shares a Google Photos album of their newborn's pictures? I guess you are a Google-avoider, so presumably you still have an actual Google account.

I think you can just talk to the person at the other end and ask for accomodation. I use Zoom for interviews, but if someone emailed me and was like "can we use Google Meet" I would be happy to change. Similarly, if someone texts me "I can't open that link to the photos you sent", I can just email them the photos.

It's not really a big deal, and I don't think that your unwillingness to talk with your friends or business partners makes Google a public utility in a regulatory sense.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#195

Post by caslon »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #176
caslon wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google-avoider checking in! It's actually really easy to avoid it. DuckDuckGo's search quality is better, Firefox is deteriorating daily but still looks and feels better than Chrome does, email should really be avoided but there are dozens of really good email services, and their ad service doesn't need a replacement for obvious reasons (just block it).

What do you do when you have a job interview that is scheduled as a Google Meet meeting? Or when a friend shares a Google Photos album of their newborn's pictures? I guess you are a Google-avoider, so presumably you still have an actual Google account.

"What do you do when you have a job interview that is scheduled as a Google Meet meeting?"

Unlikely scenario; the companies that overlap with my set of skills either have their own offering or use a libre one. I will admit, this might be harder for other people (my skills hover around RTC heavily).

"Or when a friend shares a Google Photos album of their newborn's pictures?"

My friends range from "Too young to be using a 'boomer' service like Google Photos" to "Too old to be doing anything technical that isn't just texting photos via SMS," and most of them in the 25-30 child-having age either also avoid Google or would just show the pictures in person. I don't live in the Valley, though, so this could be a regional thing.

"I guess you are a Google-avoider, so presumably you still have an actual Google account."

No, I don't. It never seemed necessary to me.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#196

Post by gruez »

ziftface wrote: post #47
jbgreer wrote: post #7

Interesting approach, especially given that they don't seem to be concerned about having internet service providers declared public utilities.

I wish they would do that as well, but that certainly doesn't invalidate these concerns

It doesn't invalidate the concerns, but it makes you question their motivations.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#197

Post by wyager »

kmeisthax wrote: post #143
Buttons840 wrote: post #34

> the lawsuit seeks a legal declaration that Google is a "common carrier," like phone, gas and electric companies, which must provide its services to anyone willing to pay its fee. How can something on the internet be a common carrier when the internet itself is not a common carrier?

I'd lean into this. Instead of trying to defend Google as not being a utility we should be calling for utility regulation for both web services as well as residential access providers.

> we should be calling for utility regulation for both web services as well as residential access providers

I would prefer not to completely stagnate the internet just yet.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#199

Post by Workaccount2 »

genericuser314 wrote: post #148
pcmoney wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have multiple choices for water, dig a well, buy it from the local grocery store. Same for sewage because self composting toilets exist. Also electricity isn't a utility just use a stationary bike as a generator or buy solar panels... Just because you have multiple choices doesn't mean something is/isn't a utility. Its pretty arbitrary. They also aren't talking about Google products (most of which are completely…

I think you're making a category error in your analogy. DuckDuckGo is much more like Google than "dig a well" is like municipal water.

People talking like drilling a well in your backward is on par with typing in a different URL.

So how about this, the upfront cost and effort of typing in a different URL is at least a few orders of magnitude easier than drilling a well.

Re: Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a public utility

#200

Post by istjohn »

Grimm1 wrote: post #145
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is increasingly winner-take-all, so its hard to do that. Very few people want to use the second best search engine instead of the best, or constantly use multiple search engines. Seems like a natural monopoly to me. How can you complain about a weak-willed government in a post showing the opposite anyways?

One instance of a single state showing teeth means nothing about the strength of our federal government which matters much more here. How is Google a natural monopoly?

It could be a natural monopoly if Google is able to use their user's click traffic to out-manuever SEO spam and their competition is unable to reach the necessary scale to obtain sufficient volume of user click traffic to compete with Google on quality.
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