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Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

lukesmith.xyz

11–20 of 32 posts

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#11

While an interesting topic, the author needs to tone down the sexism before it seems like it deserves a place on HackerNews

I suspect your the nature of your objection is something you can't quite grasp yourself. Calling it sexist seems a safe way of attack.

It is one thing to know that we like or don't like something. Much harder is understanding why. Usually we give the first acceptable "reason" that comes to mind rather than trying to figure it out. Figuring out why we like or not often takes a number of thought experiments.

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#12
post #3

"God will set you free". Got it. Now which god?

Any god of a tradition that's been successfully around for a few thousand years would be a good start.

Even if you don't believe in a deity, the traditions of a successful culture are worth considering given we only have a few years to figure out what a good life looks like before we die.

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#13
"A drug addict is not free. A teenager who gets home from school everyday, closes his door and watches internet pornography is not free. A person who compulsively checks their social media feed when they wake up or are minorly bored is not free."

This thing sounds like it was written by a 12 year old

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#14
post #6

While an interesting topic, the author needs to tone down the sexism before it seems like it deserves a place on HackerNews

What sexism specifically?

Well this to start: “ A woman who sleeps around throughout her twenties and is left with nothing is not free.”

There’s a lot of pretty messed up sexism packed in there.

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#15

While an interesting topic, the author needs to tone down the sexism before it seems like it deserves a place on HackerNews

I suspect your the nature of your objection is something you can't quite grasp yourself. Calling it sexist seems a safe way of attack. It is one thing to know that we like or don't like something. Much harder is understanding why. Usually we give the first acceptable "reason" that comes to mind rather than trying to figure it out. Figuring out why we like or not often takes a number of thought experiments.

Nope, I’m looking at some pretty specific frames the author is pushing, see below.

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#16
This article is fairly inane, but just to comment on this one minor point:

>Even extreme libertarians will probably say (2) is in a better place, but might chalk things up to (1) needing to have more discipline and they'll make up some just-so story as for why unambiguously bad drugs, or pornography, or dangerous things should be allowed anyway.

No, an (informed) extreme libertarian would try to dissolve this as a false dichotomy. They'd perhaps talk about various insurance schemes and contracts, which an individual is free to enter or leave (in the same way that they're free to choose between a countries with more or less harsh drug regulations), but which can still constrain an individual's actions/impulses in the short term for their own benefit.

Similarly, a modern liberal might defend the freedom to choose which country you live in, on similar grounds.

I felt the urge to respond to this just because such arguments are much more interesting than the author's attack on straw-liberals/libertarians

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#17
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sexism specifically?

Well this to start: “ A woman who sleeps around throughout her twenties and is left with nothing is not free.” There’s a lot of pretty messed up sexism packed in there.

That's also the author's only reference to women by my reading (did I miss another?), the rest are explicitly directed at men.

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#18
> Enlightenment "freedom" is only the freedom to perfectly follow the whims of impulses and vices indiscriminately.

Highly convenient definition if one wants to slander something. Aka, a straw-man argument.

Actually, freedom means finding a balance between vice and virtue that suits ones personality. With too much virtue one would do serious activity too much, basically overworking oneself. With too much vice one does things that are inadvisable for health and one accomplishes nothing.

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#19

While an interesting topic, the author needs to tone down the sexism before it seems like it deserves a place on HackerNews

If you're referring to the Christian tradition that the author brings up - it's usually men that are admonished by that tradition explicitly, because men need to hear it. Generally, it's considered that women and mothers don't need as much instruction being a later (or more fulfilled) act of creation than men. It's also why the deceiver focused on Eve first - if she fell, Adam would surly follow.

And yet it's not only men who are admonished by the article. An example of a woman is given, too. That one example is of a woman who isn't monogamous and is "left with nothing".

What is it that she has lost?

Re: Modern “Freedom” Means Being a Slave to Impulses

#20
> Enlightenment "freedom" is only the freedom to perfectly follow the whims of impulses and vices indiscriminately.

Boy, freedom does sound pretty bad when you define it that way.

Very few people would earnestly argue a worthwhile life is the sum of arbitrary indulgence, and the author puts zero effort into making a case that's an accurate and whole representation of enlightenment or western values, nor do they put any particular effort into making a case for their slave-to-discipline or slave-to-impulse dichotomy.

In fact, the case is stretched to the point where it seems plausible this piece is as much some sort of attack on enlightenment or western values as it is any kind of philosophical examination of freedom.

Enlightenment/western freedom, as far as I can tell, actually seems to be a balancing act between recognition that individuals are most likely to best be able to determine what self-actualization means, within certain bounds (the right to swing your fist ends at the end of others nose and all that). You have individual freedom out to a point that's collectively negotiated, ideally with majority buy-in and even under reasoned principles, and accountability past that point. There may be individual or collective failures here but they'll be within a bound of acceptable error that will still cause less suffering than, say, letting a privileged minority impose their personal vision of morality on everyone in the name of freedom through moral strength.

That position is certainly not above criticism. Perhaps some day the author will even arrive at something resembling an engaged and thoughtful criticism rather than indulging their own unexamined and unsupported impulse towards strict father vs a degenerate society narratives.

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