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MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

ftc.gov

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Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#71

Post by yupper32 »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #67
leesalminen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I were to own 1 share of $AMZN, I’d be criminally liable for anything the corporation does? Would I do 10 minutes in jail or something?

I used to argue for exactly this. The thing is that people would only invest in companies with executives they personally trust. Which may be a good thing overall, but would be a big problem in the short term. I definitely think board members and Top executives should be held criminally liable for the actions of the company. Unless they can prove it was a specific bad actor, and that their policies didn't encourage i…

"Unless they can prove it was a specific bad actor"

That's the opposite of the entire basis of the US criminal justice system. Innocent until proven guilty.

You need to prove it was them. Not have them prove it was another bad actor.

Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#72

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

s_dev wrote: post #40
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #24

Unpopular opinion, but MoviePass could have survived a lot longer if they had more funding. I think there could have been a real opportunity with establishing themselves the main funnel to getting consumers to physical theaters. They couldn't hold on long enough to see what could be possible with such a moat.

They could never survive -- their customer demand came from selling $10 movie tickets for $9 -- funded entirely by investor burn. A sustainable business is one where you sell cinema tickets for $11 having bought them for $10 with the customer choosing you because you've added more than $1 in value for them. It's a car racing down a hill. The acceleration looks exponential but it's just going to crash.

I always assumed that MoviePass's endgame was to funnel so many of the ticket sales through them that they could strong-arm the theaters into lowering their ticket prices. They thought if they captured the movie ticket sales market, they could tell the theater "Start allowing us to pay only $2/ticket or we'll remove you from our app and you won't make ANY sales!"

I could be totally talking out my ass, but that's what I always figured. I don't see how else they could be profitable.

Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#73

Post by asciident »

s_dev wrote: post #40
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #24

Unpopular opinion, but MoviePass could have survived a lot longer if they had more funding. I think there could have been a real opportunity with establishing themselves the main funnel to getting consumers to physical theaters. They couldn't hold on long enough to see what could be possible with such a moat.

They could never survive -- their customer demand came from selling $10 movie tickets for $9 -- funded entirely by investor burn. A sustainable business is one where you sell cinema tickets for $11 having bought them for $10 with the customer choosing you because you've added more than $1 in value for them. It's a car racing down a hill. The acceleration looks exponential but it's just going to crash.

It was more like them selling $300 of movie tickets (I'd watch one a day) for $10. Everyone only used them for the arbitrage.

Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#74

Post by amznthrwaway »

legitster wrote: post #13

> First, according to the FTC, MoviePass’s operators invalidated subscriber passwords while falsely claiming to have detected “suspicious activity or potential fraud” on the accounts. MoviePass's operators did this even though some of its own executives raised questions about the scheme, according to the complaint. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the only reason the FTC was able to establish intent was because…

No post body was provided.

Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#75

Post by cr1895 »

jlarocco wrote: post #64
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #24

Unpopular opinion, but MoviePass could have survived a lot longer if they had more funding. I think there could have been a real opportunity with establishing themselves the main funnel to getting consumers to physical theaters. They couldn't hold on long enough to see what could be possible with such a moat.

Sure, but any business can survive indefinitely if they're given unlimited funding with no expectation of returns. In your opinion, what's the point of being the main funnel to theaters if you're losing money hand over fist to do so? What was the plan for profitability? Was the goal to somehow strong arm movie theaters into discounted pricing? Why would theaters agree to that when there's no benefit for them to do so…

> The only way their business model can work is if the majority of customers sign up and never use it, which is a very weird thing for a business to depend on, IMO.

This is essentially the concept of insurance, is it not?

Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#76

Post by oplav »

Leary wrote: post #60

I signed up for Moviepass the month they came out. Canceled the month they started to have blackouts. Great deal, would do again if any VC wants to try again for the goodness of the movie industry.

I had a similar experience. Got to see lots of movies in a small, comfortable (and expensive) NYC theater while always pre-picking my seats.

Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#77

Post by ta988 »

jellicle wrote: post #65
leesalminen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I were to own 1 share of $AMZN, I’d be criminally liable for anything the corporation does? Would I do 10 minutes in jail or something?

Perhaps people should. There's no intrinsic reason why a system must exist where certain kinds of enterprises can be FUNDED by me, I can receive PROFIT from them, but I cannot receive any CONSEQUENCES from them if they commit crimes. One might even say the system encourages the commission of crimes and therefore is clearly in need of reform.

Then company ability to distribute dividends should be restrained if they engaged in criminal actions.

Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#78

Post by reidjs »

justapassenger wrote: post #9
diogenesjunior wrote: post #4

>“MoviePass and its executives went to great lengths to deny consumers access to the service they paid for while also failing to secure their personal information,” As expected.

MoviePass was as much as much of a tech company as WeWork. Having a website doesn’t make you a tech company.

I sort of like the peopleware description of technology "anything that didn't exist when you were a kid is technology"

In that sense movie theater subscriptions counts as technology. Is moviepass still dumb? Yes.

Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#79

Post by arbitrage »

okay, but like ... don't we sign away any right to care in the T&C/EULA of services? or like when you go to a baseball game, this ticket can be revoked at any time for any or no reason.

like, it's their company and service, they can do what they want with their data. why is the FTC getting involved here?

Re: MoviePass settles FTC allegations that they limited usage, exposed user data

#80

Post by [deleted] »

Someone1234 wrote: post #10

If a private individual did the things set out here they'd be criminally liable. When a company executive orders employees to do these things, they're not facing any criminal complaint at all (any of them). See also Wells Fargo multiple thefts (both fraudulent accounts with fees, and literally entire homes/all possessions). It is pretty evident that many laws are constructed (e.g. CFAA) wherein there's one rule for i…

[deleted]
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