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FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

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Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#111

Post by Jiocus »

lxgr wrote: post #84
tyrion wrote: post #49

It may seem an advantage to use the latest cutting edge features of a single platform, instead of using well established standards which are compatible with every browser. Sure, you are going to leave out some small minority of users, but you gain access to many new features. However, you are helping push the web become an increasingly centralized place, controlled by just a few entities, with interests which are ver…

There simply isn't a way to implement this on Firefox as it is. It's lacking the necessary API for end-to-end encryption: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27432001 Yes, many pages support only Chrome for no good reason at all, but in this instance, the ball is 100% with Mozilla.

What necessary E2E API does Chrome provide?

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#112

Post by celsoazevedo »

dbg31415 wrote: post #77

That's OK, Firefox would just melt the MBP if you tried to do a streaming call on it anyway. It's my browser of choice, but it uses 40x more power to do streaming (vs. Safari), and has serious heat issues. Wish they'd fix it. Until they do, no reason for Apple to try and support it... likely Firefox can't give a user a good streaming experience on MacOS given how long this issue has been a problem and how little has…

Firefox performance has improved a lot on my 2019 MBP over the past year or so. For video streaming, it doesn't seem to be much worse than Chrome.

One of the reasons why Firefox and Chrome use more power than Safari for video streaming is that they support modern/open video codecs that don't have hardware decoding on Macs. For example, YouTube has been using VP9 for years. Until Catalina, Safari would load a h.264 video (that's why Safari used to be limited to 1080p) which has hardware decoding, while Chrome and Firefox would load a VP9 video at higher resolutions and use software decoding, using way more power than Safari. Now YouTube is starting to use AV1 and again, Chrome and Firefox supports it, but Safari doesn't.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#113

Post by paulcarroty »

sam_goody wrote: post #110
lxgr wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There simply isn't a way to implement this on Firefox as it is. It's lacking the necessary API for end-to-end encryption: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27432001 Yes, many pages support only Chrome for no good reason at all, but in this instance, the ball is 100% with Mozilla.

Actually, Apple has many developers on this team, and Firefox is an open source project. If we could create an feeling that companies that claim to be developer friendly make sure that FF is also compatible, it would be a huge win for all involved.

> and Firefox is an open source project

check Mozilla CEO salary and stop finding excuses in open source.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#114

Post by SahAssar »

ryanar wrote: post #51
SahAssar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E2E is on by default as in all P2P webrtc calls. What you can't do is use a SFU and still get E2E. Perhaps I'm just missing something but why would you want a SFU AND E2E? Why not just use TURN in those cases (if the problem the SFU is meant to fix is routing)?

An SFU lets your video/audio streams scale. If there were only ever two people, sure, you could use a TURN server if P2P failed, but if you invite 4 people on the call, an SFU will allow each person to upload their stream to the SFU which will then distribute it at various bitrates to the other people on the call.

Except that if the call is E2E then the SFU can't do things like reencode to a different bitrate. Also wouldn't the decryption keys need to be distributed to all the participants of the call via the centralized service anyway since the stream is already in progress? Or am I just being thick in not understanding how a SFU and E2E would bring all of the benefits of both?

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#115

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

gbromios wrote: post #89
tyrion wrote: post #49

It may seem an advantage to use the latest cutting edge features of a single platform, instead of using well established standards which are compatible with every browser. Sure, you are going to leave out some small minority of users, but you gain access to many new features. However, you are helping push the web become an increasingly centralized place, controlled by just a few entities, with interests which are ver…

What a deeply ignorant perspective. Too infuriating to ignore. Firefox users constitute my webrtc-based video conference app doesn't currently support ff and never will unless compatibility with chrome's implementation comes around. My manager would have me committed if I tried to pull that shit, and I'm already notorious for refusing to do things on principle. Suggesting that we don't support firefox because I'm laz…

> Firefox users constitute I configure FF to use a different user agent, as a security measure. It's a short hop from browsing the Internet with FF to disabiling browser identification.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#116

Post by seumars »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #67

If you review Mozilla's business practices, constant spending on NGOs and Politics, ludicrous executive compensation, and recent layoffs of the engineering team, constant buying and starting of new projects (Pocket, Firefox OS) only to abandon them, and so on, it is clear that at least part of the story is that Firefox has been through incredible mismanagement even as they should have been in the fight for their live…

Spot on. Browser competition nowadays is all about each vendor's ability to implement new standards – and in this case Firefox is clearly lagging.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#117

Post by throw_m239339 »

orbifold wrote: post #27
whereistimbo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairphone doesn't. Fairphone goes as far as giving percentage of phone sales to factory workers.

A percentage of phone sales always goes to factory workers in the form of wages...

> A percentage of phone sales always goes to factory workers in the form of wages...

Preposterous, factory workers are usually paid the same wage whether their production sells 1000 units or 1 million units. Their wage isn't based on how many phones are sold or even if phones are sold since the factory is usually paid upfront in production, not when the phones are actually sold.

Phone factory worker wages are completely unrelated to phone sales.

You comment illustrates a complete misunderstanding of the supply chain business.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#118

Post by Thiez »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #115
gbromios wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a deeply ignorant perspective. Too infuriating to ignore. Firefox users constitute my webrtc-based video conference app doesn't currently support ff and never will unless compatibility with chrome's implementation comes around. My manager would have me committed if I tried to pull that shit, and I'm already notorious for refusing to do things on principle. Suggesting that we don't support firefox because I'm laz…

> Firefox users constitute I configure FF to use a different user agent, as a security measure. It's a short hop from browsing the Internet with FF to disabiling browser identification.

For a long time I did the same because some websites would refuse to load when they thought you weren't running Chrome even though it would have worked just fine in FF.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#119

Post by gbromios »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #115
gbromios wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a deeply ignorant perspective. Too infuriating to ignore. Firefox users constitute my webrtc-based video conference app doesn't currently support ff and never will unless compatibility with chrome's implementation comes around. My manager would have me committed if I tried to pull that shit, and I'm already notorious for refusing to do things on principle. Suggesting that we don't support firefox because I'm laz…

> Firefox users constitute I configure FF to use a different user agent, as a security measure. It's a short hop from browsing the Internet with FF to disabiling browser identification.

Are you suggesting that ff traffic would be substantially higher if I were to account for users that were obfuscating their user agent header?

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#120

Post by kerng »

paulcarroty wrote: post #113
sam_goody wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Apple has many developers on this team, and Firefox is an open source project. If we could create an feeling that companies that claim to be developer friendly make sure that FF is also compatible, it would be a huge win for all involved.

> and Firefox is an open source project check Mozilla CEO salary and stop finding excuses in open source.

What correlation does CEO salary and open source have?

Maybe the comment thinks about "not for profit" org - but even then it seems normal to pay people a competitive salary.

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