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FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

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Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#51

Post by ryanar »

SahAssar wrote: post #35
nklmilojevic wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot achieve true E2E encryption on Firefox as it doesn't support insertable streams, so I guess this is where the limitation is. EDIT: bug on bugzilla https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1631263

E2E is on by default as in all P2P webrtc calls. What you can't do is use a SFU and still get E2E. Perhaps I'm just missing something but why would you want a SFU AND E2E? Why not just use TURN in those cases (if the problem the SFU is meant to fix is routing)?

An SFU lets your video/audio streams scale. If there were only ever two people, sure, you could use a TURN server if P2P failed, but if you invite 4 people on the call, an SFU will allow each person to upload their stream to the SFU which will then distribute it at various bitrates to the other people on the call.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#52

Post by speeder »

whereistimbo wrote: post #26
kossTKR wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do but who doesn't? Apple isn't different than any other tech companies. That said, yes, the global south produces for west in slave like conditions and it's sad.

Fairphone doesn't. Fairphone goes as far as giving percentage of phone sales to factory workers.

Sadly not available in my country :( I wanted to buy it, or its German competitor I forgot name, but both are not allowed in Brazil. (I mean, you CAN risk it... but legally the government can ban you from the network if you try)

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#53

Post by tsujp »

whereistimbo wrote: post #38
orbifold wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A percentage of phone sales always goes to factory workers in the form of wages...

Edit: No, workers get wages when they do their job regardless of phone sales. Fairphone gives factory workers a bonus from phone sales in addition to the usual wages.

Unless we're talking about money that is quite literally not from any phone sales (do you count accessories and tied-in services?) e.g. laptops only, then that statement is not strictly true. I've never seen such a differentiation except for on a balance sheet. Apple (as other companies often do) sell many products of which the revenue from those sales pay for the wages of their employees. I don't think financial accounting here plays into the morals of underpaying people.

Using "the money to pay these people doesn't come from this line on a balance sheet it comes from that line" is not a justification for the, while unfortunately legal, unethetical employment conditions of others.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#54

Post by hartator »

tyrion wrote: post #49

It may seem an advantage to use the latest cutting edge features of a single platform, instead of using well established standards which are compatible with every browser. Sure, you are going to leave out some small minority of users, but you gain access to many new features. However, you are helping push the web become an increasingly centralized place, controlled by just a few entities, with interests which are ver…

> you are helping push the web become an increasingly centralized place

Does it? Open source standardization is a good thing. Still not sure why html/css/js engine should be the exception. No one is calling for competition for QR code, torrent protocol, or the other billion of very dominant open source projects.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#56

Post by southerntofu »

NavinF wrote: post #48
southerntofu wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, so it's precisely another case of "we tested on chrome and it works", which falls under "don't care" software development best practices.

No, it's very practical. A lot of devices are just too weak to encode anything other than H.264 so that's the one codec you must support. Other codecs are better, but you have to do more testing and enable those codecs only on calls where all members are using a device that supports it.

> A lot of devices are just too weak to encode anything other than H.264

Not that your point is wrong, but a lot of devices are too weak to encode/decode H264 as well. It's very recent for me to have access to second-hand hardware with H264 support and still i'm in western Europe where it's easier to come by.

Though as the other commenter pointed out, if you can afford to use hardware en/decoders then it's always the better option.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#57

Post by Devasta »

Web standards stopped mattering in 2004, these days the only browsers that need to be considered are Chrome and mobile Safari, everything else from other browsers to standards bodies is just an exercise in pretending those two browsers don't have control over the web.

Those two will never be unseated; the constant addition and change of new APIs means that trying to create a new browser is a herculean task beyond the resources of all but the largest corporations, and even if you did somehow manage to do it the standards will always be retroactively set to whatever Chrome does so you'll always be playing catch up.

Its not possible to compete anymore, though to be honest I'm not sure it was ever possible to.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#58

Post by cblconfederate »

tyrion wrote: post #49

It may seem an advantage to use the latest cutting edge features of a single platform, instead of using well established standards which are compatible with every browser. Sure, you are going to leave out some small minority of users, but you gain access to many new features. However, you are helping push the web become an increasingly centralized place, controlled by just a few entities, with interests which are ver…

wish people would say the same thing about mobile platforms

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#59

Post by whywhywhywhy »

tyrion wrote: post #49

It may seem an advantage to use the latest cutting edge features of a single platform, instead of using well established standards which are compatible with every browser. Sure, you are going to leave out some small minority of users, but you gain access to many new features. However, you are helping push the web become an increasingly centralized place, controlled by just a few entities, with interests which are ver…

I can count the number of developers I've worked with over the last 5 years that care about it working in any browser other than Chrome on one finger.

This idea that only Chrome matters is absolutely coming from the bottom up and when you point out something broken in Safari the first response from them is "Does it work in Chrome?" before they even look at it because they themselves don't even test in a second browser.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#60

Post by whereistimbo »

tsujp wrote: post #53
whereistimbo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: No, workers get wages when they do their job regardless of phone sales. Fairphone gives factory workers a bonus from phone sales in addition to the usual wages.

Unless we're talking about money that is quite literally not from any phone sales (do you count accessories and tied-in services?) e.g. laptops only, then that statement is not strictly true. I've never seen such a differentiation except for on a balance sheet. Apple (as other companies often do) sell many products of which the revenue from those sales pay for the wages of their employees. I don't think financial acc…

> Apple (as other companies often do) sell many products of which the revenue from those sales pay for the wages of their employees.

I thought it was the responsibilities of company which contracted by apple to assemble iPhone like Foxconn to distribute the wages, so the wages are fixed and not fluctuates based on phone sales? Or does Apple give some bonus from phone sales directly to Foxconn workers?

> Using "the money to pay these people doesn't come from this line on a balance sheet it comes from that line" is not a justification for the, while unfortunately legal, unethetical employment conditions of others.

I do hope that Fairphone is being honest about, in addition to sourcing from ethical supply chain, also improving factory workers, as evidenced from workers testimonies here[0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBK0LepZoj8&list=PLIc1-wxSJg...

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