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The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

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Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

#221

Post by ben_w »

reissbaker wrote: post #99
ben_w wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $2000 for a 30kWh home battery backup? Who wouldn't get one? Very few of the people that would currently benefit from a domestic backup battery could afford $2k, and most of the people who do have $2k to spare don’t live in places with unreliable electricity. The overlap isn’t zero, but… for example, I visited Kenya with an ex of mine, we met a local friend of hers, that friend would’ve benefited from a more reliab…

> Very few of the people that would currently benefit from a domestic backup battery could afford $2k California, a state of 40 million people, would disagree with you ;) Not just referencing the blackouts we had last summer: CA also is heavily invested in solar power, and as a result, power is much cheaper during the day than at night (assuming you opt into time of use pricing). A battery for $2k would pay for itsel…

> A battery for $2k would pay for itself in California quickly

Anyone who can find a spare $2k can buy one and quickly find they now have more than $2k spare, but you’d be amazed how many people, even in a rich part of the world like CA, don’t have as much spare cash as the average developer.

https://samvimesbootstheory.com/

Like I said, “not zero, but…”

Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

#223

Post by HPsquared »

cyxxon wrote: post #220
kungito wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Batteries and coffee are the 2 supermarket things which amaze me. How is it possible there isn't some regulation on them having to display anything. Nescafe sometimes have "number of cups" displayed but sometimes they literally only have weight in grams. Next in line a hygienic products with also convoluted units but they seem to always have the "number of washes" at least.

What other information besides weight (mass) in grams would you want? I mean sure, percentage of Arabica vs Robusta maybe, or lightness of roast, but the weight is exactly what you want and the most neutral and fair information regarding how much you get (and how much you get out of it).

Caffeine content labelling would be a big one. Could also be applied to things like cola.

Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

#224

Post by FabHK »

Nice that the cost has come down. Unfortunately, that which makes electric cars and planes feasible, namely energy density (Wh/litre) and specific energy (Wh/kg), has not improved that rapidly. The article mentions a factor of 3.4 over 30 years for energy density, ie 4% p.a., or doubling every 17 years. I think electric aircraft need another doubling or two in specific energy to become feasible, so another few decades :-/

Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

#225

Post by sschueller »

bluedino wrote: post #79
cm2187 wrote: post #39

That's not the price of batteries in general, that's the price of Li-Ion batteries. Were Li-Ion batteries mass produced in 1991?

Yea, AA batteries have definitely not gotten cheaper

Why are they so expensive? In particular Energizer and Duracell? Is there a recycling fee included in there or is Energizer and Duracell just gauging the public and not doing anything regarding recycling?

Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

#226

Post by 4gotunameagain »

londons_explore wrote: post #215
arnaudsm wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semi-related rant : I'm baffled that most AA batteries don't display their capacity. It's literally the most important spec. Models vary between 400 and 3400 mAh!

If they have the word zinc on them, they're about 400 mah. If they have the word alkaline, they're about 3000 mah. And there isn't much in between. There are a few other weird chemistries, but they're never on the sweet price-performance curve, so avoid them.

That's not entirely true, capacity greatly depends on current draw and there is significant variability between brands (e.g. https://www.powerstream.com/AA-tests.htm)

Long time ago I stumbled upon a great website with a Wh/€ (the metric that really counts) for almost all brands, but I couldn't find it right now

Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

#227

Post by Marazan »

leucineleprec0n wrote: post #155
eric-hu wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Initial iPods used spinning disks. Solid state was not a factor in early iPod success. https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPod+Classic+Hard+Drive+Replace...

It didn't really take off until flash and the colored assortment anyways tho

They started taking off when you could load them from a windows machine.

Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

#228

Post by Markoff »

yet their energy density didn't grow almost at all in last decade, I don't need cheaper battery, I need battery with significantly higher density, in previous decades density was pretty much doubling every 10 years, but this stopped in 2010, then in last 10 years was density growth how much 10-20% ?

Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

#229

Post by kungito »

HPsquared wrote: post #223
cyxxon wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other information besides weight (mass) in grams would you want? I mean sure, percentage of Arabica vs Robusta maybe, or lightness of roast, but the weight is exactly what you want and the most neutral and fair information regarding how much you get (and how much you get out of it).

Caffeine content labelling would be a big one. Could also be applied to things like cola.

Exactly! The most important question is how much caffeine is there. They market them as "strong" or "mild" and then they have the "new" "strong" and then they added the strength indicator. One has 4/5 dots the other one has 2/3 dots. Why not disclose caffeine content and let me decide how strong that is? Every other time I switch which coffee I drink or when I drink at friends house I get either headache or sleepy because I cannot maintain my caffeine intake

Re: The price of lithium-ion batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

#230

Post by 0xFF0123 »

japanuspus wrote: post #195
14 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious, what kind of projects do you do with those batteries, what is their use for? Thank you

I use 18650 cells over pocket cells in my hobby projects if possible: partly because I find it easier to get consistent quality 18650's in my local market (shipping lithium ion batteries is a hassle), partly because it allows me to use the same pool of batteries across many things (power banks, torches, different DIY-projects).

What battery holders do you tend to use?
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