Cicero used humor to charm audiences–and humiliate opponents • Hacker News Board

Re: Cicero used humor to charm audiences–and humiliate opponents

#41

Post by sam_goody » Mon, Jun 07, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

permo-w wrote: post #32

sam_goody wrote: post #31

The current politician who had a mastery of humor was Ronald Regan (formerly Bozo the clown). It was used to great effect - mostly to villianize Russia, but as needed against all of his opponents. When he was criticized for his age, he responded "I won't use my opponent's lack of experience against him" gaining a laugh and owning the conversation (worth watching). It also made him more approachable and liked by the c…

Reagan often used humour in the form of jokes that were clearly laid out in a very traditional way: joke set-up, unexpected twist His humour took a very defined and clever format. However, he’s absolutely not the recent politician to use humour. While Trump’s humour is less clearly defined than Reagan’s, he still uses it to great effect. The same for Boris Johnson, or Putin, and Obama too. Especially Trump though. Tr…

While I agree, I am afraid to comment positively about anything Trump does (especially as he sells more enthusiasm and less humor). I mentioned once to some friends how much I enjoyed watching part of a rally, and was stonewalled.

Re: Cicero used humor to charm audiences–and humiliate opponents

#42

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Jun 07, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #33

sam_goody wrote: post #31

The current politician who had a mastery of humor was Ronald Regan (formerly Bozo the clown). It was used to great effect - mostly to villianize Russia, but as needed against all of his opponents. When he was criticized for his age, he responded "I won't use my opponent's lack of experience against him" gaining a laugh and owning the conversation (worth watching). It also made him more approachable and liked by the c…

>The current politician who had a mastery of humor was Ronald Regan (formerly Bozo the clown). I don't believe Reagan was ever Bozo, perhaps you are thinking of his starring role in Bedtime For Bonzo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedtime_for_Bonzo in which he also did not play Bonzo.

And further: Bonzo wasn't a clown, but a chimpanzee.

(The confusion between "Bonzo" and "Bozo", as well as between chimp and clown, appears to be widespread, FWIW. Also between "Reagan" and "Regan".)

Re: Cicero used humor to charm audiences–and humiliate opponents

#43

Post by gerdesj » Mon, Jun 07, 2021, 10:06 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #36

jonquark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the section about "Down with skool" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_Latin

Hm. That original poem is much better English and, of course, completely impossible Latin. I find it interesting that what gerdesj remembered were two lines (in the wrong order) that didn't go together in the English, but which were also the only two lines that made sense as Latin.

That's what happens after 40 years, I'm afraid: You get your doggerel out of order and accidentally correct it.

I recall those lines that my Latin teacher prefaced with something like "I can't remember the whole thing but ...". I was 10 in 1980 and he was quoting probably from his youth at school or a further 20-30 odd years before then, so I'm recalling something second hand from around 1950-1960! There were some errors. Who knows if he got the "correct" poem to start with. You should hear my rendition of the Jabberwocky.

I feel quite sorry for historians.

Re: Cicero used humor to charm audiences–and humiliate opponents

#44

Post by thaumasiotes » Mon, Jun 07, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

gerdesj wrote: post #43

thaumasiotes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. That original poem is much better English and, of course, completely impossible Latin. I find it interesting that what gerdesj remembered were two lines (in the wrong order) that didn't go together in the English, but which were also the only two lines that made sense as Latin.

That's what happens after 40 years, I'm afraid: You get your doggerel out of order and accidentally correct it. I recall those lines that my Latin teacher prefaced with something like "I can't remember the whole thing but ...". I was 10 in 1980 and he was quoting probably from his youth at school or a further 20-30 odd years before then, so I'm recalling something second hand from around 1950-1960! There were some er…

I'm not trying to find fault! I think it says something about possible memory strategies.

> I feel quite sorry for historians.

Yep, this happens everywhere. Context is gradually lost to time and eventually questions just can't be resolved.

Something I read that really stuck with me was a comment on some correspondence between a Mesopotamian king and a high-ranking water engineer:

> His letters contain many poorly understood technical terms for weirs, sluices, dykes and the activities associated with them, so that accurate translation is impossible

We know, broadly, what he was talking about, we have a huge corpus showing the vocabulary in use, and we understand the technology he was using pretty well. But we don't know exactly what he was saying, and it's vanishingly unlikely we ever will.

(quote from https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16179911-the-mystery-of-... )