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Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

farms.com

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Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#201

Post by Cerium »

taylodl wrote: post #192
mitchell_h wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an extremely rural area. The Deere integrations are a huge reason. Another that's not talked about is Deere field service. It's just DAMN GOOD. If you're running a serious tractor(7-9 series ) and it's the middle of planting/harvest hours can be the difference between red and black margins. Deere will roll out a team with 30ft trailer of parts out in hours if you have an issue. CaseIH will sorta match this,…

Exactly, and at the moment in time you don't care about "right to repair" - you need to get back up and running now . Which has led me to believe "right to repair" is a ruse, but for what?

Right to repair tractors has become talking point because it is a use case that cannot be easily dismissed as "unimportant to real Americans" since many Americans value individualism, hard work, and their countries reputation for food production - all of which are idealized in the concept of the independent American farmer.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#202

Post by defenestration »

freeopinion wrote: post #188
defenestration wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought about this a lot. What if we just share a lot of tools with our neighbors. It will prevent waste and free up space in your house. However, for me, it's more convenient to have my own tools. I have the freedom to mow the lawn whenever I want. Also on that sunny afternoon when all the other neighbors also want to mow their lawn. And I want a tool that's in the right condition. When I have time to do a job aro…

Absolutely. I completely agree with everything you said. But I still see the benefit in other models. And I wonder what innovation might occur if we spent more time exploring options.

Absolutely! I guess the main innovation will be social. Thinking of a way that people feel responsible for shared tools, a non-awkward way of selecting neighbors who you are willing to share with and some kind of emergency-button if you need a tool now and all the shared tools are taken.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#203

Post by randomdata »

missedthecue wrote: post #199
swiley wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commodities tend to have very low profit margin. It wouldn't be surprising if organizations like John deer sell their tractors at a steep loss temporarily which could prevent farmers from being able to buy other brands.

John Deere MSRP is well above most competition.

A friend of mine, one of the larger farmers in the area, purchased a new CaseIH tractor a couple years back. Even before it arrived in his yard, the Deere salesman caught wind of the purchase and arrived with "We can't be having that." Made my friend an offer he couldn't refuse and the CaseIH tractor was sold before even a single hour was put on it.

A high MSRP means a lot of room to play with the numbers.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#204

Post by throwaway894345 »

etempleton wrote: post #178
FractalParadigm wrote: post #49

I just want to throw my 2¢ out there, as a mid-20's who went to a high-rural-population high school, there's an entire new generation of farmers who have a) accepted that Deere's need constant/regular service calls, and b) don't care to learn how to fix it (or older equipment) themselves. At the end of the day farming is just a business same as any other, it's the same reason why a lot of trucking companies lease the…

I also grew up in a rural high school with a large farming population. I categorize farmers into three types: 1. Professional - Usually highly educated, good business sense. Probably obtained an advanced degree in agriculture science, though not always, some self-educate very successfully. These farmers generally do not like John Deere and think they are overpriced, not as good as they once were, and find the lack of…

> Some kids grow up with a Ferrari on their wall, these kids had a John Deere tractor.

John Deere has a significant toy business that has to pay off big time considering how many of these customers they produce (and the toys themselves are quite expensive IIRC).

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#205

Post by tremon »

cferr wrote: post #164
tehaugmenter wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean you vote with your dollar. Stop supporting these bad practices. I don't, it's a hull to get everyone to stop and force themselves to work around. Maybe it's a losing battle, but stop giving them money and we'll be better off. I would not purchase a product with an underlying subscription. I even go as far as getting older cars so I don't have to worry about it.

> I would not purchase a product with an underlying subscription. Not even your phone?

Indeed, not even my phone. Why would that be hard to understand?

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#206

Post by gerbilly »

nimbius wrote: post #173

diesel engine mechanic by trade here, and ive followed this topic with interest for about five years now. Its similar to large over-the-road trucks in that its ultimately manufacturers catering to large fleets instead of owner/operators. most farms in America are corporate monoliths. "farmers" here want mttf, mtbf, metrics, and a projection of how many cam chains, PTO knuckles, lockout converters, etc... they will ne…

> most tractors there are nearly sixty years old.

When I worked as a farmhand we were still using some 1950s Massey Ferguson tractors every day.

An it's one of the biggest dairy farms in the province (Canada).

I mean we had newer stuff too, but the old machines were kept chugging along. I remember opening a sideplate on a MF 135 after one of the kids jammed up the transmission.

We got it unstuck with a crowbar, and were up and running again in 15 minutes.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#207

Post by throwaway292893 »

etempleton wrote: post #200
throwaway292893 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tone of your comment changed dramatically in this reply. You didn't have to say hick, you implied it with your uneducated rant. You simply don't understand why they want a John Deere, and it's not because they are uneducated. Also, maybe never try to shove people into categories, especially only 3 categories. Especially one category being "uneducated". You reached all that from a topic about repairing tractors an…

I appreciate your feedback. I phrased poorly. By uneducated I never meant formal education exclusively. There are many ways to learn and I personally find self study to be the most effective. And I am sorry I came across as elitist, I grew up lower to lower-middle class, and my parents grew up dirt poor. As my mother would say, "you come from a long line of poor farmers." I judge because those students who actively r…

> 'Likely barely passed high school due to a complete lack of effort, because they were going to be farmers and school, "couldn't teach them nothin."

> The problem with these individuals as it relates to business is that they do not understand business or accounting and probably only have a rudimentary understanding of ag science.

> their only basic ag science understanding leaves them unable to adapt as well as the pros to droughts, infestations, and other adverse conditions."

So please tell me, how did you come to realize these faults in these people you met. Did they explain to you that their accounting was bad, did you see their books, did you test their soil, did you see them struggle with an infestation, or are you simply guessing and hurling insults?

Since you prefixed your statement with "probably" I'm going to guess that you're using the #2 category to shit on a group of people while the #1 category is used to argue your point that smart farmers support your conclusion that john deere = bad.

This situation has nothing to do with "uneducated farmers" and everything to do with JD being the top tier brand but also shafting its customers by not allowing them to repair their product.

Kubota doesn't come close to JD, especially in larger tractors and integrations.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#208

Post by basch »

dncornholio wrote: post #147
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with modern large farmers is the same as with richer tesla owners... you buy a car/tractor with 5y warranty, you service it at a dealer (to keep your warranty), and after 5y, you trade it in for a new one. It's same as with most other devices like that.. even a mercedes... who cares about data/plans/parts/... for a 3yo mercedes? ..it's under warranty, so they'll deal with it. Same with phones... new phone…

Leasing and/or renting: Fine. But making a monopoly on providing parts and services is not a good thing. People end up paying 2000 dollar for a 2 dollar repair. Imagine the world when buying a new car/truck/tractor is less expensive than replacing the brakes for example. This is how the world works right now.

>People end up paying 2000 dollar for a 2 dollar repair.

That's the entire world economy. Have you watched Shark Tank? "What do you sell it for and what is your landed price." Mark is smiling and clapping at the people who manage to sell a $2 part for $100, the bigger the ripoff the more he loves it, they've achieved the American Dream.

The reality in the Apple/John Deer situation is that the profit is going back into overfunding design to also make better products. Not all of it, but enough to keep a persistent edge over competitors.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#209

Post by throwaway894345 »

randomdata wrote: post #129
FractalParadigm wrote: post #49

I just want to throw my 2¢ out there, as a mid-20's who went to a high-rural-population high school, there's an entire new generation of farmers who have a) accepted that Deere's need constant/regular service calls, and b) don't care to learn how to fix it (or older equipment) themselves. At the end of the day farming is just a business same as any other, it's the same reason why a lot of trucking companies lease the…

You must know my neighbour. He was running a Kubota for a year or two, but it didn't take him long to replace it with a Deere. I have most of the major brands in my shed. I don't particularly care much about what colour I'm using. Purchases have been made based on cost, which has included some green equipment when a great auction find has been found. My experience says that JD has the UX nailed. When you're spending…

Hi, I worked on the new (as of ~2014) CommandArm touch screen and joystick. :)

Developing software at John Deere was frustrating, but they have some really fun, interesting problems and other, larger political/cultural problems.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#210

Post by dehrmann »

FractalParadigm wrote: post #49

I just want to throw my 2¢ out there, as a mid-20's who went to a high-rural-population high school, there's an entire new generation of farmers who have a) accepted that Deere's need constant/regular service calls, and b) don't care to learn how to fix it (or older equipment) themselves. At the end of the day farming is just a business same as any other, it's the same reason why a lot of trucking companies lease the…

> At the end of the day farming is just a business same as any other

Is your core competency farming or tractor repair? That said, I am sympathetic to farmers who want to repair their equipment. There's a scale where you have enough free time that with simple enough equipment, it does make sense to repair it yourself.

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